[converted_hand][hand_history]Yatahay Network – 50/100 NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager
BB: 18,249 (182.5 bb)
UTG: 4,406 (44.1 bb)
Hero (UTG+1): 3,410 (34.1 bb)
MP: 9,482 (94.8 bb)
MP+1: 5,610 (56.1 bb)
CO: 585 (5.9 bb)
BTN: 3,410 (34.1 bb)
SB: 3,698 (37 bb)
8 players post ante of 10, SB posts 50, BB posts 100
Pre Flop: (pot: 230) Hero has Q Q
fold, Hero raises to 220, 5 folds, BB calls 120
Flop: (570, 2 players) 2 J 2
BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: (570, 2 players) 4
BB bets 200, Hero calls 200
River: (970, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero bets 485, BB calls 485
What do you guys think about my play?
This was my original thought process:
I can probably only get 2 streets of value from Jx, which is my value target.
I can keep villain in with a wider range on the turn.
I want to have a stronger check/back range
I noticed that a lot of villains in my stakes make the mistake of over-valuing top pair. I figured if I check back flop, he might think he’s good and be willing to put more money in the pot than he otherwise would have with top pair.
On the other hand:
It’s probably better to bet flop and turn as that’s where we will get villain to feel the most comfortable putting his money in.
QQ does benefit from protection against free cards as its vulnerable to Kx and Ax hands that villain has in his bb defending range.
….These were the reasons that I came up with for checking the flop.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
Thanks for articulating that. I’d much rather give feedback on a thought process than a hand.
Everything you say about frontloading and protecting QQ are true. Equilibrium here is likely betting small with range, so if you choose to check back at all, it should be for exploitive reasons and AA/KK/JJ will all be better choices than QQ.
That said, it’s crazy to think you’re only getting two streets from a J! Imagine how profitable your bluffs would be if Villain never called three barrels without trips on this board.
You’re welcome. I will remember that for the next time I post a hand.
I agree with what you’re saying. After thinking about this hand a lot more, I realize now the flaws in checking the flop. Also, if I am only able to get 2 streets from Jx (which I’m not 100% that’s the case), the flop and turn are possibly the best streets to extract said value as the board will likely get scarier for both my hand and villains range.
Yeah, I see your point but how much of villains Jx range is he going to call 3 streets with? I’d say AJ, and KJ, we block QJ and it’s not as clear to me that he will call flop, turn, and river with that hand. JT I think folds to a 3rd barrel.
Having said all that, what would be a better way to look at this? Let me try to break this question up a little better (bare with me)… Since this is a BB defend, let’s start with how many Jx hands would be in his range. I would say J8o+, and J5s+ (+/- a few suited jacks). Of this Jx range in it’s entirety, what’s the worst Jack that we get villain to fold a river bet/the best Jack we get villain to call a river bet and how do you size all 3 streets?
September 14, 2014
If we were deeper (effective stacks) would checking be better here otf? Or are still trying to get 3 streets from Jx.
i think v will call 3 streets with Jx espically if he is a loose player but if he is tight he probably will fold to turn bet and thats only if u have been playing very tight. What does your range look like if u bet flop and turn? Id say it looks very strong hands like AA/KK/QQ/JK and AJ could be in ur monster range and u may even turn up with A2s if u have a fairly balanced range.
All in all though id bet 3 streets here.
Yeah, I should have bet all 3 streets. Being so short, I really want to get my stack in here. I could have bet like 175 on the flop, 690 on the turn, and bet a little over pot on the river to GII. I think that would have been fine, although villain may not have called the river because of the king.
I definitely misplayed this. Lesson learned.
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