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QQ preflop - couple of spots on a Pstars 6 handed tournament
Al29
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May 8, 2013 - 6:04 pm
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Couple of hands below guys, probably very badly played, I'm willing to accept my biggest leak is putting down what feel like winning hands when faced with aggression, question is do you often find a fold preflop with QQ, especially when 6 handed. These examples involve a 4 bet and a 3 bet after a flat call of my initial raise, if the example is a simple 3 bet do you consider players position, stats and game flow to find a fold or do you always 4 bet before considering a fold? Or do you prefer a flat pre and see how is action unfolds on the flop and turn? Hand 1 villain is 48/12 with a 0% 3 bet % and I'd been playing 22/11. Hand 2 Villian is 15/13 with a 4% 3 bet % and 0% 4 bet %. SB who 3 bet was 28/23 with a 0% 3 bet % and my stats had shifted to 26/16.

 

Would appreciate any input, cheers, this was a lowly $2.20 $3k guaranteed on stars with a field of 1765. I managed 25th so must be doing something right, lol, but would be keen on any thoughts to plug any obvious chip leaks from the hands below.

 

Hand 1

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t15/t30 Blinds – 6 players – View hand 2203971
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

ReallySick (BB): t9640 321.33 BBs
DJORFF (UTG): t2390 79.67 BBs
Hero (MP): t3470 115.67 BBs
ebibi24 (CO): t2580 86 BBs
<3marlena<3 (BTN): t2085 69.50 BBs
Softy25 (SB): t3555 118.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is MP with Q of spades Q of clubs
1 fold, Hero raises to t90, 1 fold, <3marlena<3 calls t90, 1 fold, ReallySick raises to t240, Hero calls t150, <3marlena<3 calls t150

Flop: (t735) 6 of spades 4 of spades 2 of clubs (3 players)
ReallySick bets t390, Hero calls t390, <3marlena<3 folds

Turn: (t1515) 5 of clubs (2 players)
ReallySick bets t690, Hero calls t690

River: (t2895) 5 of spades (2 players)
ReallySick bets t1050, Hero calls t1050

 

Hand 2

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t100/t200 Blinds – 6 players – View hand 2203968
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

ReallySick (UTG): t12980 64.90 BBs
zessk (MP): t9215 46.08 BBs
Hero (CO): t5755 28.77 BBs
ebibi24 (BTN): t4575 22.88 BBs
vojta555cz (SB): t3092 15.46 BBs
Softy25 (BB): t4665 23.32 BBs

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is CO with Q of clubs Q of diamonds
2 folds, Hero raises to t400, 1 fold, vojta555cz raises to t600, Softy25 raises to t4665 all in, Hero raises to t5755 all in, 1 fold

Flop: (t9930) K of diamonds J of spades 7 of spades (2 players – 2 are all in)

Turn: (t9930) 2 of hearts (2 players – 2 are all in)

River: (t9930) 4 of spades (2 players – 2 are all in)

packallama
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May 8, 2013 - 7:21 pm
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You didn't give any indication of how many hands those stats are over so I don't know how useful they are for me to include in my analysis. 

Hand #1: My standard with QQ here is to 4b because BB's 3b was very small considering BTN's call and we do not want to see a flop with BTN as well. If BTN had not called then I would always flat the 3b and play IP unless the BB was very spewy. Calling is the alternative option if BB is very tight, although it is not ideal because it allows BTN to see the flop IP. Most players will 3b squeeze TT+ AQ+ in this spot for value with some bluffs so we should not assume we are behind. BB's stats suggest that he doesn't have any air because he would just call with anything that wanted to see the flop and his sizing indicates he doesn't want to “chase” away his action. Even if we knew BB's range was AA and KK, we should never fold preflop because we have very good odds to set mine. As played, we should definitely continue on this flop and calling is the best option. We can get away from it if BTN puts in further action behind us. 

The turn presents an interesting decision because I could see myself doing any of the three options. BB would likely continue barreling with TT+ as well as flushdraws. We are ahead of two of his likely pairs and all of his draws. The turn is a very scary card for BB's big pairs so we may be able to get him to fold them. I do not think his 3betting range out of the BB ever contains a set or many 3x combos (A3s maybe?), so I am tempted to bluff shove turn to get him to fold KK+. It is an interesting play because it charges any draws that BB has and it might get him to fold a few better hands. Of course this spot is very read dependent. I am not sure how often players in a $2 will fold KK+ postflop even on a board as scary as this one. If you do not think he will fold KK+ then calling and folding are also options. If we continue with the assumption that his BB squeezing range is closer to JJ+ and he is never folding then we should fold turn. If you think his range is loose then calling turn with the intention of bluffcatching most rivers is probably the best play. 

On this river, I would fold because his sizing looks like value/blocking. Any flushdraw that was barreling got there although it would likely shove river. KK+ are still feasible value bets with the board pairing. TT-JJ would be very ambitious value bets and would likely check river. And any random 3x that he has bets river once more for value. I do not see us being good on this river very often unless he has a total airball or missed clubs. I think most players would ship river with their bluffs because there is only a 2/3 pot sized bet left. 

Hand #2: This spot is a dream with QQ in the CO. We open into three reshove stacks and get action! I wouldn't even fold if SB had shoved and BB had reshoved. QQ is well ahead of both of their ranges and you should be happy to get the money in preflop. 

Foucault

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May 9, 2013 - 12:17 pm
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I think the first hand is played OK. I can see a case for folding river and maybe even turn, but it comes down to just how wide you think he's 3betting. 

I definitely wouldn't 4bet. Being ahead of his range isn't sufficient justification for raising. You also have to be able to play your hand profitably after raising. How good can you feel about QQ in a 4bet pot, even if you flop an overpair? Are you eager to get it in against a 5bet?

Second hand is good, hard to imagine a scenario where I'd get away from QQ there.

Al29
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May 9, 2013 - 6:43 pm
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Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. I agree I should have folded turn or river for hand 1 as there was little indication he was the type of player to 3 barrel bluff or keep betting with JJ or worse – at the time he'd played 25 hands. And as stated perhaps a 4 bet preflop and fold to any further action was an option.

 

Hand 2 was against a player over 130 hands. Good to know it was the right call against his range. Onwards and upwards…

 

laugh
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