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QQ on undercard flop facing check raise vs tight opponent
mistergj
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November 29, 2010 - 2:40 pm
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Villain is 9/9 over 33 hands. This is the first time he's called a preflop raise. When he check raises the flop I really feel he has a set, although looking back it now he could have easily had 99-JJ. Do you like the call on the flop to re-evaluate on the turn? What do you do now he bets again?

 

Poker Stars $10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t15/t30 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

MP2: t880 29.33 BBs
CO: t4000 133.33 BBs
BTN: t2955 98.50 BBs
SB: t3405 113.50 BBs
BB: t2430 81 BBs
Hero (UTG): t2640 88 BBs
UTG+1: t2658 88.60 BBs
UTG+2: t3290 109.67 BBs
MP1: t3470 115.67 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is UTG with Q of hearts Q of spades
Hero raises to t90, 6 folds, SB calls t75, BB calls t60

Flop: (t270) 3 of spades 4 of hearts 8 of diamonds (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t150, SB raises to t480, BB folds, Hero calls t330

Turn: (t1230) J of diamonds (2 players)
SB bets t870, Hero ???

hawkeyeK9
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November 29, 2010 - 3:12 pm
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First off. Good post because this is a classic spot when a tournament is just getting going and you get a monster hand early but when you make your standard raise of 3x and such, blinds call with any two cuz the 3x is insignificant to stacks so try to flop monsters with rags. I think we have all gone broke in this spot because we hope villian just flops top pair and is just agg but then when it all gets in they flopped two pair or a set.

With that said here are my thoughts. You have to do the best with the information you have…this guy has shown to be the raiser if entering a pot and this is the first call pre rather than raise…so I think we can take premiums out of his range down to even AJ or 1010. With him being so tight he is not likely limping into a pot with rag rag such as 3 4 or 8 4. So to me it looks like either a set, maybe 55 or 66 (he might think its good but turn bet is too strong), or nothing. The only way to figure this out is to 4 bet his check-raise post flop…if he snaps all-in a 4 bet you can definitely let go of the hand I think. Calling the check-raise is real bad in my opinion, there is no turn card you are going to necessarily like since you already have a made hand, if anything most turns will bring draws or over cards. I think show massive strength with a 4-bet post flop to about 980 and if he snaps all-in we fold. When you just call and the turn didnt change your hand, you either fold not knowing if its right or you frustratively go all in not knowing if its good. Get the information and a read with the 4-bet and you either take the pot or save going bust.

jshilling09
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November 29, 2010 - 3:54 pm
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i would never 4-bet.  4-bet fold over 1/3 of your stack?  You turn your hand into a bluff, because he certainly isn't calling you with 99-jj now if he is playing 9/9, and what if he jams 65?  He is just getting free chips from us.  Calling is a great option because it keeps his bluffs in his range, and we can still gain information from the turn.  For instance, when the J hits the turn, and he fires, after we call a 3-bet, we can assume that he is strong because A) low stakes players fear overs like none other, and B) he wants to continue betting into us when we have shown considerable strength on the flop.  This removes A8 from his range, as I believe he will check the turn with that and any other 8 besides exactly J8 b/c there will be little to no vaule in betting from his perspective. but he is running a 9/9 so I doubt that J8 is in his SB calling range.  When he fires this turn it is only hands that beat us and bluffs, and I believe at this stage with someone this nitty, you are more likely up against a set in this spot.  Also note that you guys saw the flop 3-way, and the BB was still to act when he check-raised the flop.  The BB's stats would be helpful b/c if he is a huge fish calling station then the villain will more likely call there to keep him in the hand, and then I would say his hands are more weighted towards bluffs.  But if the BB has somewhat solid stats(Or the SB isn't a thinking player) then I would say you are beat and toss the hand.

brentd22
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November 29, 2010 - 6:11 pm
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If sb had set or 2 pr than he's flat calling and hoping BB comes along.  His check-raise screams weak hand here.  Your flat of his raise is right on.  When he bets turn you really have 2 choices – call or shove.  Because there are some scare cards that can roll off for both u and villan I lean toward shoving turn.

 

If villan shows up with set I would be very surprised.

bennymacca
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November 29, 2010 - 6:16 pm
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4betting is horrible here. 

 

imo calling to re-evaluate is fine, but what it also does is narrow your range down. 

 

and now sb likes his hand enough to still bet into your check raise calling range. as jshilling said, i dont think he fires again with A8 or 56, these are hands that want to peel the turn pretty cheap

 

tough fold but i think its the right play. 

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