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June 6, 2013
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This is my first post on these boards, so
Hello everyone! 🙂
So this is a hand I played recently in a local 300€ buy-in tournament.
Villain had been the most aggressive player at the table over the first 90 minutes of the tournament, preflop as well as post flop. This was the first time any 3-bet at the table had not resulted in a fold, as far as I can remember. Definitely the first 4-bet.
Hero had been somewhat active, opening his fair share of hands and c-betting often. Hero had already folded a couple of times when his c-bet was raised.
Hero's stack: 35k
Villain's stack: ~ 40k
Blinds: 150/300/25
Hero opens Q
Q
in MP to 800
Villain 3-bets to 2.200 on the button
Folds back to Hero who 4-bets to 6.000
Flop comes 4
9T
Hero bets 6.400.
Villain raises to 19.000
Hero ???
I'm most unsure about the 4-bet and my betsizing on the flop, but any constructive criticism is obviously welcome.
May 1, 2013
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seems like tough spot hes not defo 5 betting kk/aa so these are possibilities i guess plus 99/1010
if hes aggro he maybe shoving flush draw or jj a10 i guess, but i really dont know , i suppose hard to fold in 4 bet pot vs aggro player, id be torn here not sure
August 23, 2012
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I don't think we should ever be folding after we 4b and flop an overpair on the flop with an spr of < than 2.5 to 1 and 1 to 1 after we CB. With that said, I think we are beat here a lot because he can have TT, 99, and slowplayed KK+. Villain likely slowplays TT and 99 a good amount so we may be able to discount them from his range. We are getting 2 to 1 so we only need 33% equity vs his range to GII. It would help if you could narrow down his range for calling your 4b. Is he peeling preflop with a hand like Q9s or KQs? I doubt it with your sizing, but you never know. TT and 99 would make sense, but they should probably fold to your 4b.
Even against JJ+, AcKc-AcJc, we have 38.75% equity. If we add 99 and TT then it gets pretty boarderline and we only have 32.8%. Add more draws and we should definitely GII.
June 6, 2013
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Well, at the time I had him on 99+ with very few draws (actually didn't think anything but AK was likely), because I thought my line must have looked strong enough, that he'd not expect me to fold, ever. And I figured he might be the kind of good player who likes to be aggro in small pots, but is rather tight, when the big money goes in.
So I decided to disappoint him by folding, as I still had 70BBs left after the fold.
After I watched him play a few more hours, this was certainly a mistake. He was the kind of player, who likes to put his opponents on a whiff and raise. He continued raising c-bets all-in at least a dozen times and I'm now quite certain that even A9 and non club AK are part of his range here.
But I'm still not terribly unhappy with the fold, given the information I had at the time and the fact that I still had plenty of chips to find better spots later.
Still the question remains: Given that I'm folding this hand as played, should I have played it differently in the first place?
May 30, 2012
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I wish you would have made you 4bet a bit smaller. maybe 4800-5200, but he flats you in postive. Hmmmmmmm, it's either a cooler or nothing. In this kind of tourney, I'm never getting away from QQ on that flop. Sure, AA & KK maybe, AKcc…….. If I had TT or 99, I would slow play it one more street if I were him.
I'm never folding it. I'm either doubling up or it's a cooler and on to the next one. Live and learn sir. Never stop learning the game……
June 6, 2013
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I'm not sure what you mean by “this kind of tourney”, since I did not give much info on the tournament at all, which I probably should have:
This is one of the 10 biggest buy-in tournaments of the year in Berlin (excluding EPT side events). It is scheduled as a three day event with a very reasonable structure. The biggest weekly tournament has a buy-in of 100€.
My base assumption for players in this tourney was that they are thinking players. In contrast to the daily donkaments, where the base assumption for unknowns is, that they are challenged reading their own hand. 😉
What's the reasoning behind the smaller 4-bet though? My thinking was, that I want to make it more expensive, when I'm OOP. Just trying to understand and learn.
August 23, 2012
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I agree with 4betting much smaller. 4betting to 6k doesn't give us a good price when we are bluffing and when we have a value hand, 6k doesn't give him much room to 5b click it back and fold to a shove. 4betting smaller also allows him to hood flat with some of his 3b bluffs that we crush like J9s and Q9s. I would make it around 4950, but I'm not hugely familiar playing this deep with antes because of the structures on the network I play on. We do want to make it more when we are OOP, but 4bs and above should be much smaller because the SPR gets lower with each bet in preflop.
Also, we don't have a 4b this spot. It's probably not that profitable to GII ~120bbs deep against someone who we percieve as aggressive, but don't have a dynamic with. Calling with QQ will also protect weaker hands in your calling range. If we call down multiple barrels and get to showdown, villain will be less likely to 3b and barrel off on low runouts. Then that lets us call more of his 3bets profitably and play better vs him in general.
May 30, 2012
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The reason why I said, “this kind of tourney” is because you didn't provide ANY informatino on the kind of tourney it is or where besides you saying it's a “local 300” Ill assume that's 300 euros. The tourney and kind of event makes a difference. From the what you described it, it sounds like it's a regular saturday daily at your local casino with regs and donks. Another thing is describe the villian to us. Is he a young wizard, old angrier guy, crazy asian or what? That all can matter at times. Honestly, If you tell me this is a normal saturday daily at your local casino then I'm slamming it in her face and let the chips fall where they may. If this is an EPT main event, I'm folding to the aggro guy cause it's early. But I agree with packallama.
As far as your bet sizing pre….. The reason I want it smaller like 4800 or 4950 like packallama. A bit of pot control and not blowing the pot up. You have QQ and I'm thinking ahead to what my turn bet is going to be compared to my stack. You have to think ahead a little bit in tourneys or you blow up pots when you don't have to.
Lastly, how is he seeing you? You see him as aggro. Does he think you are Taggy, laggy, a wizard or a donk. Depending on how you have played previous hands. I hope you took his chips or final tabled this tourney.
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