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February 2, 2015
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WSOP League Live Tourney (Winner of league receives seat to WSOP Main Event, but this is game 6 of 12)
Level 4 – 50/200/400
Villain (SB): 21k = 52.5bb
Hero (MP): 17.8k = 44.5bb
Pre Flop: (1000) Hero is MP with QhQs
UTG limps for 400
Folds to Hero
Hero raises to 1000
Folds to Villain in SB
Villain 3bets to 2000
Hero 4bets to 4000
Villain shoves and covers Hero
Hero folds
I’ve been playing with all of these players for at least 6 tourneys now (and most I’ve played with for years) so I have a pretty good read on their tendencies and ranges. I’m certain that I made a correct fold here as Villian is generally tight/passive and would not be shoving this deep with hands like TT, JJ, or even QQ. However, I’m definitely questioning my sizing and would like to get some opinions on how others would have sized their raises in this spot and why.
Thanks in advance!
May 30, 2012
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Is this LIVE or online? I don’t mind your folding QQ when you think your beat by the type of player that you say you were up against. I didn’t like your org raise. I would have made it at least 1200 or a bit more 1200-1400 Pick a cool number, ME it would be 1299 online in NJ. Some would say they would flat the 2k and see a flop. I’m sure others are ok with your 4bet fold to a jam. Other wise, I would always go with my read on the player. Folding is never a bad thing.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I agree about making a larger PFR, and I think flatting the 3b is WAY better than 4b-folding. What are you looking to accomplish with the 4b?
February 2, 2015
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This is a Live tourney. I agree and I would definitely not always default to folding to a 4bet without such a good read. I also agree that my original raise should have been bigger. I was actually thinking 1200 when reviewing the hand.
As played I’m also thinking that I should have just clicked it back to 3000 on the 4bet instead of 4000. I’m almost 100% positive this player will only 5bet when she has me beat here and will always do so regardless of my sizing so I could save 1000 by only making it 3000 instead of 4000. Thoughts?
February 2, 2015
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Damn, wrote a long reply to you Foucalt and it failed when i tried to submit. here are the highlights:
In my mind I’m 4 betting to save money and limit variance. When she 3-bets her range is AQs, AK, JJ+, but is weighted towards the monsters that have me crushed. As my hand is essentially a coin flip against this range (or behind when you weight it towards the monsters) I was thinking I could either:
A) 4-bet to possibly take it down now by getting her to fold AQ and AK (yes, she is that nitty). In this situation she always 5bets AA, sometimes 5bets and sometimes calls with KK (maybe even folds rarely if I posture well), and folds everything else. This over-folding on her part is what I’m trying to exploit. I know this is essentially getting her to fold everything I beat, but I have little chance of improving and if I’m not already behind then any improvement on her end certainly puts me behind
or
B) flat for 1k more and then and face a c-bet of 3-4k on almost any board.
Therefore, when facing the 3-bet the total cost on top of what I already have in the pot for each possible decision is: Fold=$0 but that’s not going to happen, 4-bet=$3k and I take it down against most of her range, flat=$1k-$5k and I’m still uncertain about where I stand in what is now a huge pot.
I know I’m using a very exploitative strategy here based on my read, but I want to make sure I’m executing in the best way possible.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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You still haven’t told me what the 4b accomplishes. I don’t imagine that better hands will fold. Do you think worse will call? Why are you 4betting at all?
April 30, 2015
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Andrew, won’t the 4-bet fold out hands like AKo, AQs? I would 4-bet a little bigger (about 2.5-3x). As the villain, I can totally see myself 3-betting with AQs or better. Sometimes even with JTs or T9s just to get a feel for what the other player might be representing. I agree folding out JT or T9 or even AQ to the 4-bet is detrimental for the hero, so I partly agree about not 4-betting. Only hand that folds here that has equity against us, is AKo, and that too not all the time.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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navinbits said
Andrew, won’t the 4-bet fold out hands like AKo, AQs? I would 4-bet a little bigger (about 2.5-3x). As the villain, I can totally see myself 3-betting with AQs or better. Sometimes even with JTs or T9s just to get a feel for what the other player might be representing. I agree folding out JT or T9 or even AQ to the 4-bet is detrimental for the hero, so I partly agree about not 4-betting. Only hand that folds here that has equity against us, is AKo, and that too not all the time.
Right, this is why the 4b doesn’t accomplish much. The best thing you can say for it is that it will MAYBE fold out hands with 25-50% equity. Meanwhile it causes you to lose 100% of the time to KK/AA and sometimes AK or anything else that shoves on you.
TPE Pro
August 4, 2015
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4bet folding a hand as strong as QQ is generally a disaster. Before making the 4bet, plan on how you’d react to a 5bet. In this case, if you know the villain is super nitty and only 5bet jamming with KK+ or maybe exclusively AA, then we shouldn’t make the 4bet to begin with. A 4bet may make then hand ‘easier’ to play, but we want to give the villain a chance to continue with the weakest part of their range.
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