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QQ in BB Vs fellow big stack in CO with small stack all-in in satellite
Hamishk
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October 19, 2014 - 3:18 am
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Hi,

    scenario as follows:

 

Live feeder satellite event. buy-ins around $70 for a $520 satellite ticket. (1 Rebuy/ 1 Addon with initial entry of $30). 33 starting runners. 11 left. Top 3 get a ticket each. 4th gets $30

 

5 at the table. I am in BB with QQ and 53K (26BB). (Table leader and possibly Tournament leader).

 

CO is next big stack with 31K (15BB) and has been fairly active. I haven't played back at him via a 3Bet. Have flat called and taken the pot post-flop once but mainly have been letting him have my blind

 

I'm mid-50's with, in my mind, tightish image. Have taken down some pots at showdown with good hands. But about 50% of the hands I have taken down have been without showdown. (And thanks to Andrew Brokos for the Value betting series. I could hear his voice in my head at times when I was value betting thinly on the river… Plus in one situation where I check-raised a hand based on his bluffing and hand reading series which was  a successful semi-bluff check-raise… Anyhoo back to this scenario )

 

CO makes a min-raise to 4K (2X BB). Button has 2 BB and goes all-in. I look down at QQ.

 

In terms of ticket ICM, we both want the short stack to go.

In terms of taking the pot down I think I am way ahead of both opponent's ranges.

 

CO is youngish, Irish guy. Have seen him shove from BB on a SB complete.  My impression is of someone who has played some internet poker and is reasonably aggressive. He has been open-raising on my BB fairly frequently.

 

I have 4 options:

 

a) Weak option: Flat and play post flop and check down with intent of getting rid of short stack. ICM wise least variance but weak.

b) Strong Option: 3bet all-in jam- very good odds to take out short stack and likely win the pot with CO having been forced to fold, but if called, likely to be in bad shape and go to a 10BB stack

c) Weak Option but possibly ICM intelligent: 3bet small and fold. Retain a reasonably chunky stack. Maybe risk 5BB and, if fold, would still have 20BB stack.

d) Stong Option but possibly not ICM intelligent: 3bet small to induce and call. Opportunity to become chip leader and get rid of two opponents. One of whom has been a bother (the CO).  He might think I am playing back at him because  he has been stealing my blinds and shove with a pair worse that QQ (although the fact there is an all-in short stack may let him know I am not 3betting light) but if he shoves with KK, AA I am very bad shape and am flipping with AK etc.

 

If short stack goes out, we will be down to the final table and there will be a seat redraw and it is likely CO won't be looking to steal my blinds so frequently.

 

I have just started the Darryl Jace 3betting series and have made it a couple of videos into the series so will be thinking of this hand as I watch the rest of the 3betting series to see if I can better understand ICM scenarios and how to 3bet in scenarios like this.

 

I'm thinking a small 3bet would be to the likes of 10K, putting about 20K in the pot and, if he jams he has to put 30K in to possibly win 20K (if I fold)

 

Am I still too far away from the tickets (another 7 players to go out) to be playing ultra-tight and wanting to avoid a confrontation with the other big stack? That is just flat-calling and playing post-flop with a disguised hand?

 

Should I just be jamming? Or aiming to induce by 3betting small?

 

A jam would put him all in and he would be risking another 28K to win about 33K and go to about a 60K stack and be in very good shape to get a ticket.

derSchwartz
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October 20, 2014 - 8:17 am
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I think you have to go with your options b or d – either shove all
In or 3bet/call. I don’t think you are in such terrible shape of he calls your jam or shoves on your 3bet. As you said, he may think you are making an arbitrary stand.

I believe it’s actually pretty ok to push CO out even if it makes it harder to eliminate the short stack. A nice pot is available for you to win and it’s not important enough to get this small stack out. I believe that it’s often incorrect to co-operate to get the shorty out, especially if you hold the best hand. More important is your aggression, willingness to protect your blinds and ability to play for the win.

NeverAA
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October 20, 2014 - 11:32 am
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I think the only option here is to shove all in as the CO has only 13bb's left. I dont know why he is min raising here with that stack. The only thing I can think of is he has a strong hand and trying to induce. However, QQ is too strong of a hand to let go of this opportunity no matter what his intentions are. Only hands that are dominating us are AA and KK.

Intuitionally, I am just shoving it with the intention of getting a call from him. If I reraise him, that will take too much attention because it is not usual to do raising reraising with that short of a stack.

Foucault

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October 20, 2014 - 11:48 am
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Couple things. First off, I don't think you're so close to the bubble yet that you need to be worrying about passing up huge edges in order to survive and/or eliminate players. So your goal should be either to jam the QQ or to 3-bet-call, though here I don't think stacks are deep enough to do this so I'd just jam.

Second, thanks for the kind words, glad you've found my videos helpful!

Finally, I'll encourage you to eliminate from your consideration any factors that aren't at least in theory quantifiable. “Weak” is not a meaningful concept. If by this you mean that you are missing value, then yeah, but I think often people get bogged down in just not wanting to be perceived as “weak” or just generally not wanting to play in a way they think of as “weak” because that word has such negative connotations, but “too weak” just isn't ever a category in which I think about poker. Likewise, there's no prize for becoming chipleader. Sure, having more chips increases your equity, and you should be thinking about that, but “a chance to become chipleader” doesn't have any intrinsic value. Stuff like this clutters decision-making, IMO.

OneTime1Time
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October 22, 2014 - 3:51 pm
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Getting all the chips in the middle is really your only option here. You are way too far out for anything else to be a consideration, but even if we are on the bubble, I'm pretty sure the chips are always going in here. 

In response to NeverAA, and why the CO isn't just open shoving – BB has admitted he is a mid 50's guy with a tight image. He has been allowing him to pretty much have free reign on stealing, without playing back at him yet. Why in the world would CO ever shove? When he shoves, he's risking his entire stack to accomplish the same thing his min open normally does, except now he's left himself with no way out. It's key to remember that this is also live, and I'm going to guess not likely to have antes in play.

Hamishk
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October 23, 2014 - 7:27 pm
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Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

 

Just writing out the scenario helped me think about it. Having the replies helps again.

 

Cheers

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