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Q8s button in a live tournament; bizarre result from odds calculator???
navinbits
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December 4, 2015 - 3:19 pm
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This is another hand from a $180 live tournament with 20 min levels and 8k starting stack with no rebuys/re-entries. 

V1: Haven’t played with him before today.. He has been tight (borderline TAG) today and has been playing pretty well

V2: A regular who usually plays very well. He has made some poker strategy podcasts to his name and is usually a solid player.. 

 

Blinds: 300/600/75; ~70 remain out of 120, 18 get paid. We are 8 handed in this table now.

V1(MP1)(12600): raises to 1500

V2(HJ)(17k): calls

Hero(B)(14k): Qclub8club calls

SB calls, BB folds. 

Flop (Pot 7200): 7spade8spadeTclub

V1 bets 4000, V2 calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn (Pot 19200): 5club

V1 goes all-in for 7100, V2 folds

Hero??

 

Preflop: It was not a happy call from me. I know that SB is completing so many hands preflop and I was sure I will get 3:1 at least for my call. It was just a call to see what could transpire. At this point, I put V1 on AJ+, 77+. V2 could have anything here, any suited connectors over 76. 

Flop: I chose to call the 4000 bet to semi-bluff shove the turn if a club hits or shove with authority if a Q or 8 hits. This is a bad call from what I am seeing on odds calculator.. I have 10% odds at this time.

Turn: Now here’s where things get interesting. The way V1 bet the flop and shoved the turn, I clearly put him on an overpair or a set. I thought I have 14 outs (9 for flush, 3 Qs and 2 8s). Of course some of them may be corrupted if he has JJ, or I might be drawing to a flush if he has a set). I have ~27% equity and I am risking 7k to win 27k which adds up. So, I end up calling. When I look at odds calculator, giving the villain overpairs, sets and Ace-Ten combos, calculations say that I have 75% equity in the pot??? Is my calculator busted? I don’t have access to any other ones right now and ~8 hours away from using pokerstove to check this scenario out. If I remove Ace-Ten from this and have purely overpairs and set, I am supposed to be 65% favorite.. I kinda don’t trust these calculations as I thought I am a dog against his range, but have barely the right price to call… 

 

Hand result: Doesn’t matter.. 9diamond on the river, he had JJ and won.smile

navinbits
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December 4, 2015 - 4:37 pm
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EDIT: Looks like my app was corrupted… So, I was right that I have 26% equity OTT and made a marginal call.. Do you guys think this is an ok call? Or is it really that bad?

Foucault

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December 4, 2015 - 4:50 pm
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PF call is good. Turn call is probably fine but I think flop is a clear fold. The only reason you give for calling is that maybe you can bluff clubs. What about the majority of turn cards that aren’t clubs (or otherwise improving your hand)? What if a club gets there and V1 beats you to the punch (as happened)? Now you’ve made put money in from behind on the flop for the privilege of making a barely +EV call on an above-average turn card. Looks like even if all went according to plan you’d still only be able to shove for 1/3 pot on the turn. Just fold the flop. The whole point of getting good pot odds pre-flop is that you can be selective about when you continue post and still show a profit on the call. You don’t have to continue every time you get a piece of the board.

jonmon101
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December 5, 2015 - 9:06 pm
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Idk about this call pre, I would expect both these guys to be very tight here, I mean V1 only started w around 20bb, and V2 should be aware of this and not calling too wide. Idk maybe I just suck but I would always fold this spot

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