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October 21, 2012
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I copied this from a very old post somewhere…
Test: How good of a pushbot are you!? (answers in next post)
Without looking at the pushbot chart, see whether your instincts tell you to push or fold in the following situations. Then check with the answers in the next post. If you're pushing when you should be folding, this may indicate you're playing too loose and pressing too much. If you're folding when you should be pushing (probably the more common problem), this indicates you're playing too tightly with your shortstack.
(assume all situations are full 9-player tables, and that pushing or folding are the only options)
1. Blinds are 1,500-3,000, with an ante of 150. Your stack is 28,000, and you have an M of just under 5. It's folded to you on the button and you look down to see QTo. The players in the blinds are tight. Push or fold?
2. Blinds are 400-800, with an ante of 50. Your stack is 6,600, and you have an M of 4. You're UTG+1 and UTG folds to you. You look down at 55. You judge the players behind you to be mostly loose. Push or fold?
3. Blinds are 200-400, with an ante of 25. Your stack is 2,500, and you have an M of 3. You're fifth to act (on the hijack) holding T8s. The players behind you are loose. Push or fold?
4. Blinds are 2,000-4,000, with an ante of 200. Your stack is 50,000, and you have an M of about 6.5. You're on the CO with ATo. The players behind you are neither particularly loose nor tight. Push or fold?
5. Blinds are 400-800, with an ante of 50. Your stack is 7,500, and you have an M of about 4.5. You're UTG+2 with 33. The players behind you are tight. Push or fold?
6. Blinds are 6,000-12,000, with an ante of 600. Your stack is 96,000, an M of approximately 4. You're UTG with A7s, at a loose table. Push or fold?
August 23, 2012
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1. Push
2. Push
3. Fold
4. Push
5. Push
6. Fold
I play on merge so much that I found it hard to decide to push/fold quickly because I am so used to 10% ante in all mtt's.
October 6, 2010
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1-4 are definite shoves imo
5 is meh, i am on the fence
reckon 6 might be a fold but in the game i shove this all the time
October 21, 2012
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This was from a 2007 post on cardchat.com I think. It had an M chart that supposedly supported the answers but the link is dead.
ANSWERS (according to the missing 2007 M chart)
1. Push
2. Push
3. Fold
4. Push
5. Fold
6. Fold
I dont know if things are different now, but I fist pump shove all these without much thought. I am developing a mindset where I am willing to take a breakeven shove to double or bust. I am not going to nurse a small stack. Actually with all these stacks you need to double twice so carpe the ****ing diem.
September 29, 2012
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1. Push
2. Push
3. Push
4. Push
5. Borderline Push/Fold
6. Fold
November 30, 2012
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1-5 easy push
6 fold
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October 21, 2012
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The M chart says A8s+ is a shove and I think that is if everyone is playing Nash. If they are looser as the example says then I think that makes it +EV here.
The chart says A7s+ is good in the Nash Equlibrium at an M of 3 also.
May 30, 2012
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looser makes shoving less attractive in example 6
October 21, 2012
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If you are at (and im guessing near also?) Nash, then when your opponent loosens or tightens from his Nash, then you gain. That’s what I mean. We would have to know what is meant by looser in the example. If it's looser than villain’s Nash, then our shove is that much more +EV.
Regardless, as a rule 8bb with antes and A7s is go time for me from any position. Im not interested in eating those blinds with this stack on the next hand.
May 30, 2012
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not true at all, if they call wider we should tighten our jamming range to an extent, espec from EP, if they call way too tight we can jam super wide. hence A8s would probably be a fold aswell
September 29, 2012
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M of 4 UTG my M charts give A7s as the bottom hand of pushing hands. If the table is calling loose, then you should tighten your shoving range, not loosen it.
Shoving all but 6.
Shoving range for 6.
| 44+ A8s+ A5s-A3s AJo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs |
October 21, 2012
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Meh. I will probably just trust the M Chart and shove a hand like A8s.
I am not saying that this is the optimal strategy. I am saying that if two opponets are in equilbrium and the caller deviates, either by tighten or loosen, then the shover gains. I think what's best depends on where the caller is starting from in practice.
From Kill Everyone page 84 discussing Nash.
“…if you play the equilibrium strategy, your opponent's best response is to also play his equilibrium strategy. This creates a stable balance and if either player deviates from this equilibrium, they suffer in expectation.”
September 29, 2012
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Right, but if they are making an error from the optimal calling ranges, you can exploit his mistake further by adjusting your shoving range.
May 30, 2012
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rationalizability is a massive and pretty strong assumption Loxxii, I even think rationality is reaching tbh
October 6, 2010
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loxxii said:
Meh. I will probably just trust the M Chart and shove a hand like A8s.
I am not saying that this is the optimal strategy. I am saying that if two opponets are in equilbrium and the caller deviates, either by tighten or loosen, then the shover gains. I think what's best depends on where the caller is starting from in practice.
From Kill Everyone page 84 discussing Nash.
“…if you play the equilibrium strategy, your opponent's best response is to also play his equilibrium strategy. This creates a stable balance and if either player deviates from this equilibrium, they suffer in expectation.”
October 21, 2012
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Correct. Given the fact that they are looser, it's a guaranteed +EV shove based on Nash, although not optimal.
Based on that, Im taking it instead of nursing a crippled stack in the example with the blinds hitting us next hand. Double or bust.
August 23, 2012
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When they call looser in example 6, shoving the equilibrium range becomes more +EV. But in this case, we are at the bottom of our range here so it would make it less proftiable for this specific hand, but more profitable for the rest of our range.
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