September 28, 2012
Hey, i play in a pub poker league that does not have antes. These tournaments are incredibly soft, they are nightly with $20 buy in. 1st & 2nd pay and 3rd gets a voucher for another tournament. The incentive is to win (obviously) so you can play in the tournament of champions to recieve a prize package to the wsop or a cash prize at the end of the season (twice a year).
My general strategy is to stay pretty tight and aggressive. I don't play to many hands, I never limp and target the people who chase straights and flushes.I normally final table but I am always a short stack. I have a good push/fold strategy thanks to TPE.
My issue is, since there aren't any antes I find it hard to justify widening my opening range. I just get down to 10-12 bigs and start push/folding. Is this incorrect? Any specific video series? I'm looking for a win and to work on my stack building skills.
November 4, 2013
This is an subject I have asked about before – of how exactly to adjust to ante free games. I think they are considered very low stakes, maybe even a lowly form of poker and that probably most people on this site don't play them often.
I do play and enjoy them. I imagine that the way to consider adjusting our play is in a way that combines what we know about late game play (because of the large blinds at those stages leading to larger pots) but also what we know about early game play (because of the absence of antes leading to smaller pots).
The difference first off only begins once the mid game starts and antes would have been introduced.
Once that happens, in the mid game, I open less pots (less than I normally would in the midgame) because it's not worth the risk as much to open into 7-8 players.
Once the late game happens, the size of the blinds does make it more worth opening wider. So I try to open wider, but not as much wider as usual, because there are still no antes.
Also I try to consider my low to mid stack a tad stronger than I do in a game with antes, because we don't lose as much during each rotation.
That's all I'm really very confident saying, and even that may be faulty. Hope it helps.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
derSchwartz said:
Once that happens, in the mid game, I open less pots (less than I normally would in the midgame) because it's not worth the risk as much to open into 7-8 players.
Once the late game happens, the size of the blinds does make it more worth opening wider. So I try to open wider, but not as much wider as usual, because there are still no antes.
Also I try to consider my low to mid stack a tad stronger than I do in a game with antes, because we don't lose as much during each rotation.
I'm on board with the first paragraph, but not the second. Antes mean that you win more when everyone folds to your raise and also that you lose less when better hands call your raise (because you are getting a better price to contest the pot).
The size of the blinds relative to your stack doesn't change the fundamental math. The EV of a min-raise on the button is equal to (chance of folds) * (size of pre-flop pot) + (realized equity when called). The size of the blinds might change the likelihood that you get called, or they might make it easier or harder to realize equity (usually shorter stacks means easier when OOP and harder when IP), but ultimately you are risking 2BB to win 1.5BB no matter how big a BB is.
Shallower stacks should change the KIND of hands you play, though. Because immediate equity becomes more important than implied odds/postflop playability, big cards go up in value and suited/connectedness becomes less important.
Edit: Also meant to ask what you mean when you say you consider your stack “stronger”.
November 4, 2013
Thanks for the response Andrew.
By saying I consider my low to mid stack “stronger” when without antes, I mean that I consider it less vulnerable, less in the red than when with antes. It could be described by saying that without antes, my stack has a bigger M and more revolutions to survive. Therefore I'm less desparate and possess more fold equity against thinking players.
Perfectly open to corrections about that way of thinking 🙂
October 6, 2010
I used to play these tournaments a ton, it is where i was first introduced to poker
Another thing to consider is that a 10bb stack is quite often significantly above average, and quite often when you get to a final table there will be many 2/3bb stacks, due to both the turbo nature of the tournament, and the passiveness of the opponents. So you need to adjust for this, i guess this just comes under ICM adjustments but it is very important in these tournaments.
Also, due to the passiveness of the opponents, your raises will be called with an extremely high frequency. So as Andrew says, I would be opening wider for value, a hand like KJ or A9 become almost a monster given the percentage that players will call with worse, but pure bluffs should almost be taken entirely out of your preflop range.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
It sounds like your strategy for playing these tournaments is more or less in line with what one would expect. When there are no antes, it's just hard to justify playing a loose-aggressive strategy in a short-stacked tournament. However, I would caution you that once you do get to the push/fold stage of the tournament, profitable shoving ranges might be tighter than you think. I am consistently surprised by the effect that the absence of antes has on our assumptions about shoving ranges.
One other thing – “I am looking for a win”. Don't think this way. You have no control over whether you win or not. Just look to make optimal decisions.
September 28, 2012
theginger45 said:
It sounds like your strategy for playing these tournaments is more or less in line with what one would expect. When there are no antes, it's just hard to justify playing a loose-aggressive strategy in a short-stacked tournament. However, I would caution you that once you do get to the push/fold stage of the tournament, profitable shoving ranges might be tighter than you think. I am consistently surprised by the effect that the absence of antes has on our assumptions about shoving ranges.
One other thing – “I am looking for a win”. Don't think this way. You have no control over whether you win or not. Just look to make optimal decisions.
Thank you for all the posts! I have noticed that the shoving ranges have to be tighter. Would shoving A10o seven handed utg with 10BB be more of a fold? I'm trying to gage how much tighter it should be, what type of hands should I dimiss in early position. Shoving here has been primarily my trouble spot at the final tables.
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