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(3 votes) 
December 30, 2015
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Hi,
This is not a turbo.
No Limit Holdem Tournament PokerStars
8 Players
$1.50+$1.50+$0.30
Blinds 1k/2k 8
UTG clepps 94k
UTG+1 latencio 137k
MP1 Goltcsow 114k
MP2 Hero 99k
CO BiGGRiGG11 66k
D deeznutz868 69k
SB Chuck_Chai 102k
BB geob000 39k
8 5.4k Hero is MP2 A A
1 fold, latencio calls 2k, Goltcsow calls 2k, Hero raises to 7k, 4 folds, latencio calls 5k, Goltcsow folds
2 21k 9 K 4
latencio bets 8k, Hero raises to 18k, latencio calls 10k
2 57k T
latencio checks, Hero goes all-in 74k, latencio calls 74k
2 205k, 1 all-in K
latencio shows three of a kind, Kings K 8
Hero shows two pair, Aces and Kings A A
latencio wins 205k (net +106k)
Goltcsow lost 2.3k
Hero lost 99k
This is not a bad beat post. It is what it is, though my wife probably thinks I cracked something important in my mind a few minutes ago when I go stuck in a “no….no way…no…” loop. I have a question.Tilt is definitely coloring my world red right now so I want to put this out there and see if there is anything meaningful I can take away from this hand.
Did I play AA too fast for being 50BB deep, in a non-turbo with 82 out of 2449 left?
I could have taken a more passive line and got away on the river. I distinctly remember thinking, before shoving, “If you have a set or straight, good game sir.”. I also had the nut-flush-blocker. I can’t help thinking this should have been the point at which I checked. I still would have had 35BB. Plenty healthy. Anything but a K on the turn would have been a c/c, including the backdoor flush. My guess is a non-K river, after it going check-check on the turn wouldn’t have been a shove if V is after value.
Or maybe I should have bet something like $22500k? The K would have been an easy fold still but anything else and I’d probably feel committed, and maybe that is fine.
Also, should I have bet more PF? I only went 3.5xBB after 2 limpers.
Secondary to this question: Should I ever consider my edge against the table and field when deciding how to play situations like this. I had that in-the-zone feeling and felt very comfortable in my skill level at this stage compared to the players I was facing. Should this ever be a factor?
June 11, 2012
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i think bigger raise pre, bigger raise flop and gii turn is ok at this level as players like to l/c a lot and lead top pair type hands.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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MovieFX said
This is not a bad beat post.
Unfortunately I beg to differ. 🙂 You got it in good here, and villain’s line is consistent with the kind of weak player against whom fastplaying AA in spots like these is by far the best option. I think your desire to ‘get away from’ AA in this hand is mostly based on the fact it didn’t turn out well.
Preflop is good (maybe a little bigger would be fine), flop is good, and once villain bet-calls flop he has a ton of KQ/KJ in his range and calls your turn shove almost 100% of the time. You might be behind every once in a while but I think villain leads turn sometimes when you are. I think your line is pretty much perfect.
To your secondary question, yes, you should consider your edge. However, most people vastly overestimate their edge (and I mean vastly, to a ridiculous degree) and this is a great example of a situation where your edge in the tournament could not possibly be big enough that folding here at any stage is an option. In fact, your ability to make the right decisions in spots like these (which you did) constitutes a big part of your edge, so if you start folding in these spots, you’re killing your edge.
Don’t over-think things. You got it in really good versus a range of hands significantly weaker than yours. This hand went according to plan.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Forgot to mention – it’s a progressive KO, which means villain has even more reason to call it off versus you here, because he can bust you. He shouldn’t be folding any of his range on the turn once you shove, so it’s a great spot to get it in.
December 30, 2015
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Thanks for the replies!
I am really only questioning my line because of how deep I was (in chips. 90 people left is still a good distance from the prize). If I was at 30BB I wouldn’t even have posted. There is just no way, especially in a Progressive KO that I’m folding AA there. There is no amount of chips that would make me fold it preflop obviously. I think the only reason we even got to the turn is because of the effective chip stack size. If we both had 20 less BB I don’t think this gets past the flop without being all-in.
My hypothetical question is at what point in a tournament and at what chip stack depth would it start to be a mistake to be all in with just an overpair? V could have had a set of 9s or 4s the way this played out. I’m still pretty new to taking tournaments seriously so if there is any insight regarding ICM or other considerations I’d love to hear it.
P.S. I love that winning this and getting a bonus ticket to the Stars $109 special 150k Bounty Builder would have felt like “living the dream”. I could afford to play that as a direct entry but I’m trying to respect my online bankroll and earn my way there.
If anyone who is on Stars missed the new series info, here it is: https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/bounty-builders/
They have Saturday specials where the bounty becomes 75% instead of 50%. I beat a $5 6-man hyper to get into the $16 Bounty Builder, knocked out 2 people early on and free-rolled it with a little profit. Super fun.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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The question isn’t whether V could have a better hand than AA – of course he could. The question is at what point do better hands become so predominate in his stack off range that it is no longer profitable for you to wager all of your chips on AA. If you haven’t yet seen my series on Getting Paid, I’d suggest checking it out, especially the material on value targeting. As long as V can be expected to stack off with just top pair, you will continue to be a favorite with your Aces. I think a lot of people worry too much about “how can I figure out whether V has a better hand so I don’t get stacked?” rather than the more important “is he really going to fold top pair here?” It’s generally much easier to make top pair than a set, so as long as you believe V will stack off with top pair, it will be correct for you to get the money in. That doesn’t mean you’ll always win. You may get unlucky to run into a set, or unlucky in the way that you did here. There’s no getting around the fact that you have to get lucky (or avoid bad luck, which is the same thing) to win a tournament. Don’t waste time and effort trying “avoid” bad luck – it’s hopeless.
December 30, 2015
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Good stuff! I’ll check out Getting Value ASAP.
(I posted a long-winded question/share and lost it (lucky for all of you I suppose, not so lucky for me). Here is the short version…)
This thread left me wondering about a higher-level topic. Do you really run so philosophically pure at all stages in a tournament or is there a convergence point where it is better to take lower variance lines even if it means less value? Stack protection, pay jumps, etc. If the answer is “finish the University series”, that is ok wink
I’m just wrestling with variance, trying to figure out how much is the game and how much I am causing. I’m pretty happy knowing a bunch of things I don’t know though! Lots to work on.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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In theory, there are times when reducing variance is worth sacrificing some EV. ICM encapsulates a lot of this. In practice, most people worry WAY too much about this. Trust me, you will be better off focusing on making +EV plays and letting the chips fall where they may rather than wondering “how could I have avoided busting?”. You’re going to lose the vast majority of tournaments you enter, no matter what you do. Even with 82 players left, you feel like you’re close, but every one of those 82 people feels that way, but only about 10% of you will make the final table. You aren’t going to improve your chances of getting there by folding when you have the best hand. You just have to suck it up and accept that even when you get really deep you still probably aren’t going to win much. There’s nothing you can do to change that fact.
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