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Preflop spot with QQ early $33 500 cap 10k gtn

th1986

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January 4, 2011 - 10:01 am

Original raiser is 39/17 over 48 hands

The button (3better) is playing 10/10/4% 3bet over 48 hands.

All options seem pretty crappy. Fold seems ridicoulous , Flat seems sucky having to be OOP here , and 3bet get it in doesn't seem great this deep vs a tight 3better. Need help.

PokerStars Game #55346260528: Tournament #347587148, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit – Level V (30/60) – 2011/01/04 9:55:03 ET

Table '347587148 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button

Seat 1: llJaYJaYll (2665 in chips)

Seat 2: 121cris121 (4599 in chips)

Seat 3: mateo$55 (4465 in chips)

Seat 4: tobitopsen (5507 in chips)

Seat 5: MarcoPollo02 (2252 in chips)

Seat 6: MtgoExodia (4330 in chips)

Seat 7: CHIQUETE5 (2950 in chips)

Seat 8: th1986 (3752 in chips)

Seat 9: o_alienigena (2790 in chips)

CHIQUETE5: posts small blind 30

th1986: posts big blind 60

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to th1986 [Qd Qs]

o_alienigena: folds

llJaYJaYll: folds

121cris121: raises 60 to 120

mateo$55: folds

tobitopsen: folds

MarcoPollo02: folds

MtgoExodia: raises 240 to 360

CHIQUETE5: folds

th1986:

RonFezBuddy

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January 4, 2011 - 10:24 am

I think I'd just flat here and see what the flop brings. Folding and 3betting are definitely bad options because your hand is too strong to let go, and if you get 4 bet you are almost certainly behind.

You can play this hand in position if you flat.

For future posts you'll definitely get more responses if you use the converter. It's the 4 suit icon in your editor window and there's a video on how to use if it you run into any complciations here:

…..converter/

lespaulgman

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January 4, 2011 - 10:32 am

Yeah you are out of position on this, but I think you can flat and take the flop and if you don't hit (or the flop comes very unfavorably) you can get away in the face of any serious action. No way I can fold this, but I think you are too deep to just 4bet jam him. If you 4bet what would you do to a 5bet jam. I think the villain is playing tight enough here that I would much prefer to try to trap him than to let him blow me off my hand. I think he is certainly tight enough that if you hit your hand hard on a flop you are going to stack him without much effort.

RonFezBuddy

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January 4, 2011 - 10:35 am

Ahhh i missed that he was out of position. Another good reason to use the converter. 🙂

That said, I agree with lpg above.

th1986

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January 4, 2011 - 10:49 am

Ok will try to use converter again after this time. Tried with my 1st post and messed it up …

Ok so we DID flat

*** FLOP *** [6d 6s 9h]

th1986: checks

121cris121: checks

MtgoExodia: bets 540

th1986

pot is 1500 after his bet , we have 3.5k left behind.

th1986

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January 4, 2011 - 11:42 am

Poker Stars $30 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t30/t60 Blinds – 9 players

TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

llJaYJaYll (UTG+1): t2665 44.42 BBs

121cris121 (UTG+2): t4599 76.65 BBs

mateo$55 (MP1): t4465 74.42 BBs

tobitopsen (MP2): t5507 91.78 BBs

MarcoPollo02 (CO): t2252 37.53 BBs

MtgoExodia (BTN): t4330 72.17 BBs

CHIQUETE5 (SB): t2950 49.17 BBs

Hero (BB): t3752 62.53 BBs

o_alienigena (UTG): t2790 46.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BB with Q of diamonds Q of spades

2 folds, 121cris121 raises to t120, 3 folds, MtgoExodia raises to t360, 1 fold, Hero calls t300, 121cris121 calls t240

Flop: (t1110) 6 of diamonds 6 of spades 9 of hearts (3 players)

Hero checks, 121cris121 checks, MtgoExodia bets t540, Hero

ttwist

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January 4, 2011 - 5:07 pm

i call see flop spike a Q 1 time and take down a huge pot

th1986

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January 4, 2011 - 9:24 pm

thanks for the replies. looks like i did the right thing preflop , now how about the flop?

3betshove

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January 6, 2011 - 6:17 am

For flop play, I check raise here to about 1375. My reasoning being if we lead and are 3bet we are in sticky situation, whereas if we check raise and get shoved on we can get away from it relatively easy.

If he flats, we can evaluate turn

geoponos

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January 6, 2011 - 8:54 am

call flop and c/f turn i think is the best line here.

th1986

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January 6, 2011 - 9:47 am

cool. i c/called flop . turn came a 9 , checked through , river a K , i check , EP guy bet like 1/3 pot , btn (3bettor) flats , i fold.

utg had j9 , btn AK.

felt really lost though in game. and thought i butchered the hand but glad it was ok.

FkCoolers

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January 6, 2011 - 10:45 am

Check/raise flop here. Check/Call flop and Check/Fold Turn is insanely weak and allows us to get bluffed off the best hand.

If you check/raise the flop and he just calls you can bet/fold the Turn since getting raised there should only be AA. Pretty sure KK plays back at the check/raise.

Once you check/raise the flop you absolutely have to follow through with a Turn bet. I'd prob just shove any turn that isn't an A or K at that point since we have a pot sized (or a little less) stack.

If we got coolered by AA or KK then whatever… but I don't want to just shut down and see that I missed value against TT or JJ the times they can actually show up… or I don't want to give a free river card to AK.

th1986

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January 6, 2011 - 1:29 pm

wouldn't 3bet folding the flop just be turning our hand into a bluff? I wouldn't really expect 1010 (if he even 3bets it pre) or JJ to continue very often .

also you kinda contradict yourself by saying if flatted we can bet/fold turn , but in the next line say you would shove turn if called on the flop.

not saying your wrong and I'm right , just giving my thought process as to why i just flat the flop. I suppose it leaves us just guessing and gives AK a chance to catch up but it seems like the best way to get value from worse hands.

FkCoolers

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January 6, 2011 - 1:57 pm

I meant to edit and remove the bet/fold line once I realized that the check/raise makes the pot too big to turn back if we're flatted.

weizened

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January 6, 2011 - 2:47 pm

I have to agree with Coolers, I would check raise the flop, want to find out where I am at or TID right there, and I also jam the turn when no AK come. I always take the more aggressive line, but I also agree with TTWIST, just flop the Q and double up.

weizened

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January 6, 2011 - 2:49 pm

Of course I consider myself a maniac, and I don't use a hud so I would not have had that exact information.

RonFezBuddy

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January 7, 2011 - 9:19 am

Hey this is a really interesting hand and we are going to talk about it on our next podcast. Do you mind sharing results?

th1986

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January 7, 2011 - 9:26 am

sure that would be really cool.

i c/called flop… turn 9

i have 2700 pot is 2900. it checks through for the 9966 board and river is a k

i check , utg bets about 1250 into 2900 , btn calls i fold .

utg shows j9 , and btn shows the AK

do you need the actual hh because i'll have to dig that up later when im not grinding but def can prob find it.

RonFezBuddy

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January 7, 2011 - 9:36 am

If you have it that would be great, but don't put yourself out. I used what you already converted and will point to this thread for results.

th1986

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January 7, 2011 - 1:43 pm

ah looks liek i had the river action a bit wrong , he bets like 1/5 of the pot… interested on when i get to the river how i did if i should be calling this insanely small bet.

Poker Stars $30 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t30/t60 Blinds – 9 players

TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

llJaYJaYll (UTG+1): t2665 44.42 BBs

121cris121 (UTG+2): t4599 76.65 BBs

mateo$55 (MP1): t4465 74.42 BBs

tobitopsen (MP2): t5507 91.78 BBs

MarcoPollo02 (CO): t2252 37.53 BBs

MtgoExodia (BTN): t4330 72.17 BBs

CHIQUETE5 (SB): t2950 49.17 BBs

Hero (BB): t3752 62.53 BBs

o_alienigena (UTG): t2790 46.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BB with Q of diamonds Q of spades

2 folds, 121cris121 raises to t120, 3 folds, MtgoExodia raises to t360, 1 fold, Hero calls t300, 121cris121 calls t240

Flop: (t1110) 6 of diamonds 6 of spades 9 of hearts (3 players)

Hero checks, 121cris121 checks, MtgoExodia bets t540, Hero calls t540, 121cris121 calls t540

Turn: (t2730) 9 of clubs (3 players)

Hero checks, 121cris121 checks, MtgoExodia checks

River: (t2730) K of clubs (3 players)

Hero checks, 121cris121 bets t540, MtgoExodia calls t540, Hero folds

th1986

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January 7, 2011 - 2:07 pm

also since this will be discussed on there my plan when i c/call flop is get it in on most turns. give up on a a/k turn , whereas a 10 , J , or 9 i feel are gonna be a bit tricky…

also posted this on a private forum mostly full of mttsng players but a good handful that are also successfull mid stake mtt players and the 2 people who have replied so far seem to think my line/plan is ok but 1 was suggesting shoving the 9 turn , but the hand wasn't convereted and he though i had 1/2 psb left , where i actually have a full pot sized bot. just figured i'd add that in.

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