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Pre flop decision - 2nd hand into final table
BennyBoursin
Bromley Kent
Guppy
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December 12, 2012
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December 12, 2012 - 8:17 am
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Poker Stars €27 1R +1A+€3 No Limit Hold'em Tournament –

2500/t25000 Blinds + t3125 – 9 players 
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Ursullax (SB): BB = 46.3, t1157823
uarebad lol (BB): BB = 50.2, t1255021
<3ACF<3 (UTG): BB = 29.7, t743510 – Has been playing tight but went crazy 4/5 bet all in J5s a few hands before final table 
whatadisastr (UTG+1): BB = 109.4, t2734065
rlesko21 (UTG+2): BB = 18.5, t463145
badbeater738 (MP1): BB = 52.9, t1321857 – Been opening a wide range, 3x raises made me feel he wasnt the greatest and played his big hands fast
PADBOL64 (MP2): BB = 50.5, t1263386
nonodridri (CO): BB = 4.0, t100320
BennyBorsin (BTN): BB = 20.4, t510873

Pre Flop: (t65625) Hero is BTN with 8 of clubs 8 of diamonds
<3ACF<3 raises to t50000, 2 folds, badbeater738 calls t50000, 2 folds, Hero? Shove or fold? 

My image with the players involved would have seen me as a TAG, not been pulling off any fancy moves and have a good image. 

I have not done any ICM calculations, but I was more concerned with looking for a good spot to get my chips in and double up. 

Would you say this is a standard shove? Whats the worst you are shoving? 

If I had Aces Iknow sometimes you cant help but make a small 3b hoping for action knowing that shoving could kill your action.  Maybe thats how mid pairs could be played to make it look more like a monster?

jjpregler
Grinding Micros
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December 12, 2012 - 9:58 am
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If UTG is tight and he 5 bet all in on a move, did it have anything to do with his opponent?  Was his opponent loose and he possibly had reads on him?  Are you running a HUD?  What positions were the players in when this pot occured?  Was it BvB or EP vEP.  The dynamics make a diffrence on how to make assumptions on his play. 

gigantorrr
australia, qld
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December 16, 2012 - 7:17 pm
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shove

FkCoolers
Cambridge, Ma (Central Square)
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December 17, 2012 - 8:05 pm
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You can make a good case for just folding here.

gigantorrr
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December 17, 2012 - 9:00 pm
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yeah there is a case for folding… but would you actually do it in the heat of the moment?

i snap shove here… id put badbeater on a pretty weak holding here because knows that <3ACF<3 hasnt got the stack to raise fold here, and if he had anything descent, hed 3bet … in that case, id fold, but because he only flats i think hes weak and will fold to a shove… as for <3ACF<3, hes not going to want to call because there is a dude in the co with 4bbs, and wont want to get his money in bad against you and then be in the big blind the next hand….. and even if you do get called, wich i still think is unlikely, your putting pressure on a middle stack, which is always good and your probably only flipping here anyway..

 

i would like to get some feedback on my feedback, to see if im thinking about this correctly… coz thats^ what would go through my head in the heat of the moment i think

FkCoolers
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December 18, 2012 - 7:09 am
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At the very least, I'd make a 3b big enough to commit and call off because we maintain hope of keeping some weaker hands in his range like KQ. I can't imagine he calls a jam with that hand.

ICM-wise there's really only 1 stack we're guaranteed to finish ahead of. 

I just hate how 88 will perform against a UTG raise at the 2nd hand of the FT. He is almost never opening light and therefore isn't opening many hands where he'll actually fold to a jam. Every better pair calls (maybe 99 folds? doubt it) or we flip for 9th place. 

It's thin at best and bad at worst, IMO.

bennymacca
Adelaide Australia
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December 18, 2012 - 7:51 am
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i think we should be folding, i doubt UTG has much worse in his range. 

 

if this was MP open and cutoff flat then i jam all day, but not from an utg open

FkCoolers
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December 18, 2012 - 8:33 am
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Exactly.

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