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November 17, 2012
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hi struggling with bet sizing pre flop do i raise 3x all tournament and at what point should i min raise or 2.5x if at all
September 29, 2012
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I usually use the following:
60+ BBs – 3x
30 – 60 BBs – 2.5x
15 – 30 BBs 2.25x
15 BBs or less – shove (with antes; 11 BBs or less without antes to open shove)
Of course this is always based not what our stack is, but the effective stack. We could have 100 BBs, but if our opponents effective stacks are only 40 BBs, I will open 2.5x.
November 17, 2012
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thanks for the reply has really help also im not going to have the reqiured time to play mtts do you think that the 180 man non turbo on stars will be a good way to still practice for mtts?
October 9, 2012
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Hiya,
The 180s mtt on stars are great practice for mtt's as are the 90 and 45 seats.
The fields are reasonably tough even on the lower levels so you need a reasonable edge to win(and a slice of luck).
With regard to your bet sizing, I find the trick is to be consistent with your raises. The amount depends on the table to be honest. If you're raising 3x pre ante and getting 6 players flatting, then you need to 4, 5 or even 6x .. whatever is needed to fatten the pot as much as possible, still get a call but avoid multiple opponents.
On stars, i find 3x about right pre ante, partly as i will only be playing premiums at this stage and want to get as much in the pot pre flop as i can.
Post ante i tend to reduce to 2 to 2.5x .. whatever seems to be the cheapest way of stealing blinds and keeping pots manageable post flop, as i will be playing a lot more speculative hands at this stage. Whatever you do KEEP IT CONSISTENT .. you open 2.5x with 89s .. you open 2.5x with AA.
Sorry, but i don't see the merit in raising increasingly higher amounts based on your chip stack jj .. would be interesting to know your logic on that one ?
Hope i've been of help and gl
Muttley66
July 7, 2012
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jjpregler said:
I usually use the following:
60+ BBs – 3x
30 – 60 BBs – 2.5x
15 – 30 BBs 2.25x
15 BBs or less – shove (with antes; 11 BBs or less without antes to open shove)
Of course this is always based not what our stack is, but the effective stack. We could have 100 BBs, but if our opponents effective stacks are only 40 BBs, I will open 2.5x.
This is interesting, I've not seen someone have a an opening size based purely on there own stack size, but I can see the logic in it but would you care to expand on your reasoning?
Do you change your opening sizing at all based on BB size?
If you are at a table for a long time with the same players this bet sizing technique could be a little exploitable as it will be obvious that it changes with your own stack size.
October 21, 2012
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I pretty much 3x pre antes and then do something similar to JJ post. It depends on how many folds I get. If Im getting 2-3 callers per hand. Im bumping it up.
September 29, 2012
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September 29, 2012
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Turbulence said:
jjpregler said:
I usually use the following:
60+ BBs – 3x
30 – 60 BBs – 2.5x
15 – 30 BBs 2.25x
15 BBs or less – shove (with antes; 11 BBs or less without antes to open shove)
Of course this is always based not what our stack is, but the effective stack. We could have 100 BBs, but if our opponents effective stacks are only 40 BBs, I will open 2.5x.
This is interesting, I've not seen someone have a an opening size based purely on there own stack size, but I can see the logic in it but would you care to expand on your reasoning?
Do you change your opening sizing at all based on BB size?
If you are at a table for a long time with the same players this bet sizing technique could be a little exploitable as it will be obvious that it changes with your own stack size.
Early on in an MTT when players are still call happy, I like to open with more of a standard raise. Also if I flop a monster, it is easier to build a pot with a big hand.
When the stacks start shrinking, the smaller open allows for a smaller c-bet which allows me to lose less if I must abandon ship.
I play mostly live. Live players are a couple years behind online play and it seems very few of them understand the reasoning for lowering your opens as the MTT draws on, in fact, it is very common to see player with 13 BBs open raise to 3BBs. Most of them when i first change tend to suspect I sam doing it with a big hand and want action, so i tend to get more respect than my hand deserves.
Also, when I raise to 2.25, I get called by the BB very often with very weak hands and msotly get a check fold when they totally brick.
I don't understand how you think i could be exploited? How is it different if I change my sizing based on stacks or a specific level as others may do.
In live game, at 25/50 with 10k stacks, I usually open 3x
the third level at 100/200 is usually where the effective stacks dip below 60BBs, so that is usually where I go down to 2.5 BBs
Usually around 200/400 + 50 or 300/600 +75 is usually around the level where the effective stack dip below 30BBs and I reduce my raise to 2.25. Usually with 20 minute levels, once this occurs, the effeective stacks never go above 30BBs so we are opening for 2.25 or shoving the rest of the way.
July 7, 2012
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@jjpregler: The last explanation makes total sense and is ineffect what I do online. Early levels pre ante I 3x then when antes kick in I 2.15x for the rest of the tourney.
I read your first post as if you adjusted your raise size purely based on your own stack size rather than the effective stack sizes of the field based on the blinds. There if you had been on a table for a while with 60BB+ and had been running them over with constant 3x opens, then you lost a big pot and started opening smaller, this would be v noticeable and possibly exploitable.
September 29, 2012
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No it is always based on the effective stack sizes. I may be at 100 BBs post antes, but if the rest of the table is at 30 BBs, I open to 2.25x.
This is somewhat similar to the strategy mentioned by Jonathan Little in his book, secrets of Professional Tournament Poker.
TPE Management
April 6, 2010
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Muttley66 said:
Hiya,
The 180s mtt on stars are great practice for mtt's as are the 90 and 45 seats.
Definitely agree with this. A lot of great MTTers have cut their teeth in these tournaments.
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