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Was reading a post on P5 this morning and I thought it would be a great thread to discuss with the pro's on our site. I understand the concept in theory but I just don't understand the timing of implementing it. Also discussed in the thread is that this concept is not important in low buy-in tournaments, is this the case?
“The concept I am talking about is the one where “you do not need to raise during any part of the hand post-flop because all you'll be doing is making worse hands fold and only better ones will call you”. I think if someone who really understands the concept and how and when to use it can give me an explanation and possibly provide a few examples of hands and show why on some you should raise the bet while on others you shouldn't, that will really help. It doesn't have to be real hands, hypothetical ones will do just as well. This would really help so any advice is appreciated.”
that's no small feat you're asking.
in short, it all depends on your opponents range, and what you're trying to accomplish.
i guess a decent example is sort of like this:
you raise JJ to 300 at 50/100 from middle position and get called by the BB. you both have ~10K.
the flop comes T76r and BB checks. you cbet 350 and the BB check-raises to 1000.
i think a lot of inexperienced players will just snap-get in any overpair here, and i think that is a big mistake.
if your opponent is especially spewy and aggressive, an argument could be made for making a small 3bet on the flop to induce a light shove. but in general, this is going to be a spot where if you 3bet the flop, all worse hands will fold and all better will call.
for example, he might c/r 99 to see where he's at, or air because this flop misses a lot of your PF raising range. but he's folding all of that if you raise, whereas if you call you might get another bet out of Tx or 99 or get him to keep barreling with air.
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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This is definitely an important concept. Another example is when you have a pair with showdown value and betting 2-3 streets only gets calls from better hands.
For example say you have QQ as preflop aggressor and the flop comes K28 rags. Your cbet will get a lot of folds and even if they float you it's the same chips you could get from betting later streets. If the turn and river as safe you could probably either bet the turn or the river for value.
Or let's say you two pair on a flush board and you lead the river. You probably only get called by better. You're better off just checking and letting him open his bluff range.
The thought that should be going through your mind is how do i make the most money from 2nd best hands.
Please check the HH below and see if this hand is an example what we are discussing. One thing, I know I under raised PF, my math skills eluded me on that one, normall I would make it 550-575. Villain HUD stats were 40-5 with an AF that was 11.
Full Tilt Poker Daily Dollar No Limit Hold’em Tournament – t80/t160 Blinds – 9 players
Hand Conversion courtesy of Tournament Poker Edge
tinytim042 (UTG): t10687 66.79 BBs
Wollypt (UTG+1): t905 5.66 BBs
br52 (UTG+2): t21260 132.88 BBs
jac532 (MP1): t6140 38.38 BBs
elestibor (MP2): t10000 62.50 BBs
BillBam (CO): t5628 35.17 BBs
JoeGuetta (BTN): t2190 13.69 BBs
Rocco Siffrolla (SB): t2025 12.66 BBs
dinja dhammy (BB): t15020 93.88 BBs
Pre Flop: (t240) BillBam is CO with A[Image Can Not Be Found] T[Image Can Not Be Found]
4 folds, elestibor calls t160, BillBam raises to t400, 2 folds, dinja dhammy calls t240, elestibor calls t240
Flop: (t1280) Q[Image Can Not Be Found] T[Image Can Not Be Found] 5[Image Can Not Be Found] (3 players)
dinja dhammy checks, elestibor bets t320, BillBam calls t320, dinja dhammy folds
Turn: (t1920) 3[Image Can Not Be Found] (2 players)
elestibor checks, BillBam checks
River: (t1920) 6[Image Can Not Be Found] (2 players)
elestibor bets t1600, BillBam calls t1600
Final Pot: t5120
elestibor shows 7[Image Can Not Be Found] 5[Image Can Not Be Found] (a pair of Fives)
BillBam shows A[Image Can Not Be Found] T[Image Can Not Be Found] (a pair of Tens)
BillBam wins t5120
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