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September 14, 2014
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#Game No : 667046351
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 667046351 *****
$600/$1,200 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***
Tournament #66254496 $7.25 + $0.75 – Table #17 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: _MoNgReGoN_ ( $12,518 )
Seat 2: star.kat ( $22,973 )
Seat 3: cybermonkey ( $42,036 )
Seat 4: FENOMENICO ( $22,056 )
Seat 5: london_ace ( $27,644 )
Seat 6: tj195819 ( $35,323 )
Seat 7: desansiatedi ( $10,742 )
Seat 9: aakkgoodgame ( $26,200 )
Seat 10: luizcam10 ( $11,402 )
FENOMENICO posts ante [$120]
luizcam10 posts ante [$120]
london_ace posts ante [$120]
_MoNgReGoN_ posts ante [$120]
desansiatedi posts ante [$120]
star.kat posts ante [$120]
tj195819 posts ante [$120]
cybermonkey posts ante [$120]
aakkgoodgame posts ante [$120]
FENOMENICO posts small blind [$600]
london_ace posts big blind [$1,200]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ T
, 6 ]
tj195819 folds
desansiatedi folds
aakkgoodgame folds
luizcam10 folds
_MoNgReGoN_ folds
star.kat folds
cybermonkey raises [$2,400]
FENOMENICO folds
london_ace calls [$1,200]
** Dealing flop ** [ 3
, T
, 3
] $6480
london_ace checks
cybermonkey bets [$2,565]
london_ace calls [$2,565]
** Dealing turn ** [ 4] $11610
london_ace checks
cybermonkey bets [$5,345]
london_ace folds
Hey
reads – v seems pretty aggro not seen any hands showdown though.
thoughts on raising small otf and calling shove? if we raise flop i don't know if we're going to get action from worse.
as for the turn when v bets again seems like he's betting with a hand like JJ+ or AT/KT also they could have picked up a draw on the turn which they are barreling with however i reckon they would shove their draws on the turn imo.
Given that they've opened from LP there range is going to be wide so i'm thinking top pair weak kicker can be good here.
November 18, 2013
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Your hand is a bluff catcher. If you raise you won't fold better and you are unlikely to get called by worse. It is too good to bluff and too bad to raise. In other words you have better candidates for hands in both your c/r bluff and c/r value bet ranges. While there is some value in betting to get him off whatever equity he may have with his bluff hands, for me the decision for me is between calling and folding.
I've heard two different mathematical explanations on bluff-catching so it would help if someone could tell me which is more precise.
Method 1: When villain bets half pot he gives you 3:1 odds. You only have to be good 1/4 times for this to be a profitable call. If you think he's bluffing at least 25% here you should call.
Method 2: When villain bets 1/2 pot he gives himself 2:1 odds on a bet. He only needs to succeed 1/3 times to make it a profitable bet with any two cards. So you need to defend 2/3 times to prevent him.from exploiting you for folding too often. Is T6s in the top 2/3 of your range? Probably.
Not sure which method is right but pretty sure both point to a call. I'm finding my inner station.
September 14, 2014
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well if we call turn we're gunna have 14bb behind …i think he's going to triple barrel so yeah if we call turn i think we're going to face a tough descion on the river imo.
also given that v opened from LP his range is going to wide …so i'm looking at my hand thinking its pretty much worth my stack this is why i'm questioning if we should raise small otf and call a shove. I'm not sure if villian will shove with worse but i think raising small and callling a shove is better then just shoving flop. I'm not to sure about calling flop and re-evaluating turn with our hand there's a lot of scare cards that could come on the turn that can kill our action.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Everyone,
OP is not (I hope) asking about whether he should fold, but rather what is the best way to put the money in.
Clubber,
If you are confident in your ability to put Villain on a range, then the first method (determining whether you have 25% equity, also taking into consideration future action) is preferable. The problem is that it requires you to put Villain on a range, and that can be tough when dealing with an unknown player or someone who is better than your are or doing a good job of balancing and concealing information. The second method is unexploitable, which means that it doesn't matter what your opponent's range is, though it also does not exploit Villain in the same way that the first method can. Basically it comes down to whether you want to engage in the leveling game.
FAPY,
If you think you're well ahead on the turn, and you think he'll shove most of his range on the river, then you have a pretty easy call-call. You're right that your hand is both very strong on the flop and not an ideal candidate for slowplaying (hands like AT that dominate holdings that are live against T6 are much better), so there's something to be said for check-raising here. I imagine both lines are close in EV.
September 14, 2014
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Lol focault….i was asking if i should call or fold pretty much. I've got a lot of learning to do 😛
i'm on the right track though ….I was pretty sure my hand was good here vs villians opening range and like u said you have a easy call-call if you think your opponent will shove most of his range on the river. I was very sure that this was the case.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Seriously? Why would you consider c/r/call flop vs check-fold a blank turn? His range for jamming over a flop c/r ought to be quite a bit stronger than his range for firing a second barrel on the turn.
November 18, 2013
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Foucault, Thanks for the clairification. I think in my analysis I did not consider enough what happens on the river. This spot is a good example of a more generally tough situation for me in blind defense – facing a double barrel on the turn with a medium strength hand. While I think at least calling the turn is correct, it often sets up a difficult river decision.
With this board, it's very hard for our hand to improve. If villain has a 10, we have 3 outs to catch up and 2 outs to chop. If villain has an overpair or a 3 we have only 2 outs. On the other hand, if we are ahead, there are a lot of river cards that can give us fits. Any ace or face might have improved villain. With any club he could rep a backdoor flush. That's 21 scary rivers vs a handful of good ones. Also if we call, pot will be 25K and we will have 15K behind, giving us good odds to call the river.
This is the kind of situation where I tend to talk myself into folding for a number of reasons – fear of the top of villain's range, the fact that in tournament chips lost are worth more than chips won, and partly because I prefer to make an aggressive mistake over a bad call. Fear of misplaying the river leads me to give up too much on the turn. There has to be a better approach.
It's really hard to play out of position. But it's definitely an opportunity to improve and have an advantage over our competition.
September 14, 2014
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yeah you're right foucault just a mistake that I made.
I must say this hand relates to one of your hands that you played ..in your value betting series part 3, you remeber the hand you called from the BB with 78o , flop 7d 5h 3h , you then went on and said you've got a very vulenerable hand and that almost any card in the deck is bad for you that is going to create a lot of straight /flushes two pairs or there's going to be an overcard to the 7 so you would really like to front load your value. In that hand you c/r small and v shoved with T3o (easy game).
in this hand there's no draws or anything it's a very static flop.
I reckon the best way to get the money in is to c/r small flop and call villians shove i honestly dont mind calling flop and re-evaluating turn either and depending on how high the villians bluffing frequency is we can call a shove on almost any river card.
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