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This hand was 1 or 2 hands after the bubble burst. Vill was new to the table. Should i have folded with no info? Do i have enough BB to be folding there? My Thinking after his jam was that since my hand was a squeeze and he prolly isnt shoving AA or KK that im flipping for what was at that time a top 5 stack. How bad was this?
Merge Network Sunday $100,000 Guaranteed Freezeout No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t1250.00/t2500.00 Blinds + t250.00 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Hero (SB): BB = 34.2, t85573
JordanVolz (BB): BB = 8.0, t19914
timbers11 (UTG): BB = 9.9, t24749
BrianFox (UTG+1): BB = 70.3, t175725
PokerJoe561 (UTG+2): BB = 22.4, t55929
Gardenhead (MP1): BB = 76.3, t190719
househusband10 (MP2): BB = 24.3, t60639
moondiesel (CO): BB = 28.8, t71973
ontiltKobe24 (BTN): BB = 7.4, t18532
Pre Flop: (t6000) Hero is SB with A
K
3 folds, Gardenhead raises to t5451.00, 1 fold, moondiesel calls t5451, 1 fold, Hero raises to t15125.00, 1 fold, Gardenhead raises to t190719 all in, 1 fold, Hero calls t71698 all in
Flop: (t183847) 4
3 7
(2 players – 2 are all in)
Turn: (t183847) 9 (2 players – 2 are all in)
River: (t183847) 9 (2 players – 2 are all in)
Final Pot: t183847
Hero shows Ad Ks
Gardenhead shows Jc Js (Two Pair Jacks and Nines)
Gardenhead wins t183847.00
Villian more than likely does not do this with AJ or AQ. So you are flipping at best and are sitting fine with your chip count.
October 6, 2010
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tough spot. dont think its really bad, but it is certainly high variance. dont really like flatting as then we are oop, but raise-folding seems like a waste of AK, as does getting it in here, because as Hawkeye said, i reckon you are flipping at best.
is flatting to give up here really that bad? i can probably see myself doing this sometimes (and raise-getting it in most of the time)
I agree with hawk. It's too high variance and especially with no reads, i just dont think im good enough to befolding there.
I think if had 40+bb i would be folding there not wanting the flip with that many chips. I might be mistaken but i think blinds were up in around 2min which if i fold leaves me with about 20 which isnt bad.
still think i should have found the fold.
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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tbh i would play it like this as soon as antes hit and be fine with. With most online tourneys rangeing from 10 -15 minutes per blind level it is very easy to go situation dead for a couple of levels and before you know it your at 20 bigs and kicking yourself for mucking this spot. Way to juicy imo glgl.
its an obv squeeze spot so a random with alot of chips will most certainly shove AJs and AQ, sometimes even KQs lol. i think folding here is not good at all. and no, 30bb is not sitting on a fine chip count because its merge. yea its 15min levels but the blind structure is piss poor. in a few hands your prob down to 20bb wishing you hadnt passed it up. totally diff if you had like 50-60bb and u were running the table over without much showdown and such.
Squib and I talked about this in the TPE chat the other night. I dont think you can say folding here readless is bad. I also think you can choose to go for it here for a big stack. It can go either way imo. Readless definitely makes it higher variance and AK is just A high at this point. Villian could also jam AA or KK here cuz it looks like Squib is not folding with his large squeeze bet. You could look villian up in real time to see if he is a winning player for more info. Villian is risking a call for half his stack and we are readless. I think saying you are never folding here is extreme. AKo is not the nuts for 34bb's given the action.
Am i right to be making the 3bet a tad larger since im OOP and there is the flatter?
Also Hawk, what BB are you feeling ok getting it in here with? 30bb or 25bb?
Squibsorz said:
Am i right to be making the 3bet a tad larger since im OOP and there is the flatter?
Also Hawk, what BB are you feeling ok getting it in here with? 30bb or 25bb?
I think your squeeze size is fine. As far as what BB I get it in here, it is not about BB's. I am fine getting it in with your stack. I am just taking in all the information we have, which is kinda of minimal except stack sizes and the action, so with less info and someone pouncing on your squeeze while risking a significant portion of there stack and potentially minimal FE I am fine folding and continuing on.
With no reads what is your range for getting it in?
Chip789 said:
With no reads what is your range for getting it in?
Readless, I am giving villian a little credit and giving him a range 99+ and AK. So I am only getting it in with a monster. Yes I am giving him a tight range when he could possibly be pouncing with the thought that squib is squeezing. We got to remember he is readless also and he is probably not coming to the table and wanting to just throw in half his stack right away without a big hand. Again, if you wanna go with it for a big stack it is fine and I will do that some of the time, but u are hoping he has same hand or is 99-QQ range and we are flipping. Preserving tournament life with a decent stack is also important, we dont have to go with AK everytime we see it.
Not sure if I should be promoting or even mentioning videos on other training sites, but whatever. If you don't think this is a good spot to try to get a big stack, watch the zachjackdad video on chipping up in small stakes MTTs (I won't mention the name of the site I guess) and it could quite possibly change your mind.
Trying to grind a 15-25 bb stack for hours just sucks.
If you build a huge stack in this particular tournament, it gives you a very significant advantage as you get closer to the final table.
I. Am. Never. EVER. Folding. Here. EVER.
(The bottom line is that there are probably enough unpaired, dominated hands in this guy's range to make a call profitable.)
good call. your read is that he is squeezing and you took out the 2 hands that dominate you. you are ITM with no big jumps any time soon
rivermen123 said:
Not sure if I should be promoting or even mentioning videos on other training sites, but whatever. If you don't think this is a good spot to try to get a big stack, watch the zachjackdad video on chipping up in small stakes MTTs (I won't mention the name of the site I guess) and it could quite possibly change your mind.
Trying to grind a 15-25 bb stack for hours just sucks.
If you build a huge stack in this particular tournament, it gives you a very significant advantage as you get closer to the final table.
I. Am. Never. EVER. Folding. Here. EVER.
(The bottom line is that there are probably enough unpaired, dominated hands in this guy's range to make a call profitable.)
this
Im raising here PRAYING for a jam by the initial raiser– i am never folding in this spot at this point in the tourney. You have 34BB and as you said if you win your top 5 in chips — u have to take these spots if you want a chance winning the tourney.
I was reading somewhere how Shaun Deeb's ITM % is not great compared to some players, but when he cashes he either wins the MTT or is top 3 which is where the big money is. He ALWAYS takes these high variance spots — his ITM % may be lower but when he cashes he cashes big. If he loses flip he just moves on to another MTT.
yea. agree with rivermen. grabbing a top 5 stack in this mtt gives you a significant edge, that is….if you know how you play a big stack.
my little theory is this: you can pass up on chip ev spots to reduce variance a bit but as a result your chances at grabbing a big stack is reduced as well. thus you will be forced, for the most part, to playing a 10-20bb stack which will result in increased variance anyway. so either way you slice it, you cant avoid variance and personally, id much rather face variance for a chance at a big stack then facing variance with 20bb. there is just more room for error with a stack, ie facing beats and losing flips. so if there is a spot to take to jump to like 60bb+ DEEP in a mtt, i think you take it.
July 3, 2010
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Good luck finding a HSMTT winning reg who folds here.
You're inside the money – are there really people who won't take a flip for a 70 bb stack, and occasionally have AQs absolutely crushed?
shutEMdown said:
yea. agree with rivermen. grabbing a top 5 stack in this mtt gives you a significant edge, that is….if you know how you play a big stack.
my little theory is this: you can pass up on chip ev spots to reduce variance a bit but as a result your chances at grabbing a big stack is reduced as well. thus you will be forced, for the most part, to playing a 10-20bb stack which will result in increased variance anyway. so either way you slice it, you cant avoid variance and personally, id much rather face variance for a chance at a big stack then facing variance with 20bb. there is just more room for error with a stack, ie facing beats and losing flips. so if there is a spot to take to jump to like 60bb+ DEEP in a mtt, i think you take it.
This and what rivermen said..
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