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August 16, 2013
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Hi again, TPE !
I got another tough spot deep in the Sunday Re-Entry on Stars.FR
One seat in my left was a good reg who was playing on average at 90EURO buy-in with decent results. This is his first hand at the tabble. We were about 60 players remaining from 2150 entries, so very nice prizes for FT :6.3k first place. We were >50 bb deep 10 hands ago, and I flat 77 from HJ vs HJ-1(24bb), and the villan 3bets to almost 6bb. Opener folds and I call. On flop 882hh he bets, I call. On turn Kh it goes check-check, and on river Ts, I check/call and he had Q9o (air).
Now, here is the hand that gave me a headache:
PokerStars Hand #121219333104: Tournament #961024296, €18+€2 EUR Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVIII (6000/12000) - 2014/09/08 3:15:39 EET [2014/09/07 20:15:39 ET] Table '961024296 91' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: crazymix0550 (188734 in chips) Seat 2: W45_15T_D45? (HERO) (861439 in chips) Seat 3: PabloKakalo (563166 in chips) Seat 4: VodKa.ir (418236 in chips) Seat 5: scalap 94 (359712 in chips) Seat 6: bibiboss75 (146252 in chips) Seat 8: sunsurprise (607439 in chips) Seat 9: sourislol (317501 in chips) crazymix0550: posts the ante 1500 W45_15T_D45? (HERO): posts the ante 1500 Dealt to W45_15T_D45? [Ah Qh] bibiboss75: folds sunsurprise: raises 12000 to 24000 sourislol: folds crazymix0550: folds W45_15T_D45?: raises 42000 to 66000 PabloKakalo: raises 44000 to 110000 VodKa.ir: folds scalap 94: folds sunsurprise: folds
The average at FT will be about 2,4M Now... This looks insanely strong. I don't belive he ever wants a fold.. Or does he? Can he be just setting his ground
for a very effective Cbet bluff on the flop?
How much should I take into consideration the previous hand with 77? We are at the same table from 10 hands ago
(77vsQ9).
I just feel like he might have some bluffs in his range.. Really weird spot for my brain..
Sometimes when I think about it, it seems like he almost always has AA, sometimes it feels like not :))
If I call and a Q comes, it's still weird. I can never consider folding preflop. What are your toughts?
A 5bet/fold I think is desastrous, because I loose a ton of chips in the dark,
and a 5bet/call the same, because I don't think he is ever 6bet/bluffing here.
August 16, 2013
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I also feel like shoving is too much.. Ifeel like he is going to have a better hand and call a good amount of the time for theese dept of stacks and stage of tournament
July 6, 2014
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I'd call here, you're getting such good odds. I like a fold if unsuited unless you have a specfic read. I wouldnt necessarily be calling to hit a Q or A, more for flush and straits, and with immediate pot odds of >5:1 it's definately worth it.
It would also be useful to know your 3betting%.
August 16, 2013
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Okay… I will tell you that I shoved and I want to ask it how bad is it?
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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I don't think shoving is super duper terrible, considering it's a reasonable spot for him to cold 4-bet bluff (he absolutely does NOT always have AA here, that's a dangerous thing to allow into your thinking at any point), but I do think it's pretty much completely unnecessary. He made it super small, and you're getting better than 5 to 1 with a hand that flops really well. I think calling is the play here. A lot of his cold 4-bet bluffs are going to be hands that you dominate, and you're still reasonably deep once you get to the flop.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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theginger45 said:
I don't think shoving is super duper terrible, considering it's a reasonable spot for him to cold 4-bet bluff (he absolutely does NOT always have AA here, that's a dangerous thing to allow into your thinking at any point), but I do think it's pretty much completely unnecessary. He made it super small, and you're getting better than 5 to 1 with a hand that flops really well. I think calling is the play here. A lot of his cold 4-bet bluffs are going to be hands that you dominate, and you're still reasonably deep once you get to the flop.
agree
August 16, 2013
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Thank's, folks !
I think I just couldn't deal with the ideea of him bluffing me with a weaker hand, him being IP. Probably this part of me made me shove.. Thank's for the advice
January 27, 2013
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Thank’s, folks !
I think I just couldn’t deal with the ideea of him bluffing me with a weaker hand, him being IP. Probably this part of me made me shove.. Thank’s for the advice
I shove for the same reason. Feel I get pushed off many hands when deep in a tournament whereas if I shove I have a lot of fold equity.
January 3, 2014
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Would you smart people ever consider to call pre. Check any flop, expect a cbet from him and just check raise almost every board? That way imo you look very strong and put him in the hard decission. Instead of shoving and get crushed or flip you can get him to fold a better hand like AK if he miss. Also he can fold smallish PP if the board scares him. I haven’t done the math as at work break now. Question I ask this is because it’s a play I use myself from time to time. Yay or nay?
/Mike
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Obviously there are some boards we can check/raise once we call pre here, but I think it's dangerous to call a 4-bet OOP with the specific intention of check/raising 'almost every board'. There are plenty of boards on which he's not going to fold very often, or on which we're not going to have much equity, or both.
You mention that he can fold 'smallish PP' – which ones? Which specific hands are you trying to get him to fold? More to the point, which 'smallish PP' kind of hands do you think he would cold-4bet with? There can't be many of them. You need to really nail down what you think his range for cold-4betting is before you start figuring out how you're going to play on the next street.
My point is that it's not really a question of math, it's a question of logic. You can't skip ahead to planning to check/raise most boards before you have an idea of which boards hit his range, and which don't. Otherwise you're literally just clicking buttons without paying attention to the profitability of the play.
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