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Hi Pros,
I am very ashamed to admit this, but I'm just learning about the mere existence of poker software (hand tracking, finding “soft” tables, etc…) that can be used to help players who play online. I should preface this embarrassing revelation with the fact that I play live poker at a rate of about 15-1 of that I play online (obviously I'm here to change that fact as well). This “ah ha” moment came to me while reading an article by Chris “Fox” Wallace (The Top Five Things Wrong With Online Poker) in September's issue of “Poker Pro” magazine (pg.62).
During the article he drags out the usual suspects that frustrate us all about online poker, eg. the government, lack of a central governing body and cheating scandals. However the author also stuck in a three large paragraph section called “Silly Rules”. The first sentence reads “It is now against the rules to use sharkscope.com while you play on PokerStars or Full Tilt.” My first thought was “WTF?”; not because of the rule, but what the heck is “sharkscope.com”?? The author goes on to state that most players still use this, now infamous (to me), sharkscope.com and there is nothing the major sites can do about it.
Another rule the author cites is “the prohibition against buying data-mined hands from hand-history resellers online.” Again, he goes on to say that there is no way for the major sites to police this and that no one has ever been punished for breaking this rule. Finally the most momentous thing Wallace says during this article is “the few who are following the rules are at a significant disadvantage” and “If you are playing without data-mined hands (I am!!) at a $1-$2 no-limit game on a major site, you are at a huge disadvantage.”
I'm not even commenting on the author's opinion regarding this subject, I'm still back at home base, scratching my head saying…”sharks and scopes and data-mined hands I can buy somewhere…and if so, what does this mean to me…? Guys, I'm very confused and I do thank, in advance, the pro or pros who can help me figure out what must be mundane and average for you guys.
I guess the first thing I need to figure out are your recommendations on which of these softwares and tools I should get and then figure out how to use the little mysterious monsters…because right now I feel like I'm golfing with clubs made of wood while everyone else had clubs made of titanium and steel!! Is there a place on our website here that can help me…or perhaps a forum thread? Maybe another website you guys recommend to get me started on my quest to learn about these tools and then decide which ones I can and/or should use? After this long-winded post, and my now public dumbness out in the open, you leaders might want to just boot my butt right off your training site forever….I guess I couldn't blame you if you did! lol…!
Seriously, any help you guys can lend me would be greatly appreciated…I'm kind of dejected with my online poker life right now because of this.
Thanks!!
Paul
June 22, 2010
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Not a Pro, but I can help you get started. The two big software products out there are Holdem Manager and Pockertracker. If you are running a windows based machine I would suggest Holdem Manager if on a Mac PockerTracker is your only option. Both products have a great forum and beginer information. The best part they both have free trials. There is also a book called, “Harrington on Online Cash Games.” Even though this book pertains to cash it gives a great overview of the different stats and HUD(Heads up display). If you have need more information let me know, I hope this points you in the right direction.
P.
"Your either in Sheen's Korner or your with the trolls."
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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There are three main types of supporting software/sites out there.
1. Data tracking – this is Holdem manager or PokerTracker as praetor mentioned. These products will help you track your own data as well as the data of the people you play against. I made a video of how to use the Heads up display that comes with Hold em manager
2. Results tracking – Sharkscope.com and .officialpokerrankings.com are the two key sites here. You can use these sites to look up the results of the players at your tables.
3. Automation software – TableNinja and TableNinjaFT are the main software here. These tools help you multitable a little bit easier by making common actions a bit easier to do using keystrokes or mouse actions as opposed to actually having to mouse to the action buttons everytime.
Check out this video for detail on 1 and 3. You can go to the site for #2.
Welcome!
IMO….Holdem manager is the #1 sofware tool a player should get first to aid in their online game. Learn it, study it, and master how to utilize it and it will help TONS!!!! (You need to know how to customize it information wise, and also how to delve deeper into the stats on the fly also.) The second thing I would recommend to do is to get a training site membership. (Obv you have already done this.) Step 3 is learning TableNinja, etc. to help multi-table.
**Now this is probably where the merky water gets really muddy**
There are sites out there that sell HH of over a million different players. (Date mining) This is the part that alot in the poker world have a problem with, but can't really do anything about what a player does with their HEM databases, etc…..(selling them). This is where you have to make a personal decision how deep the rabbit hole goes for you in the online poker world and also where your ethical values land.
Is the most honest post I have ever posted…..YES!!! lol……Hope this helps, but it prolly only makes it worse! lmao
-f1ferrari02
June 25, 2010
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I consider myself ethical, and I use Sharkscope all the time while playing. I don't know a lot of people that don't tbh. The rule is pretty dumb, and I think it is in place to stop people berating other people with their terrible stats when they call off half their stack pre with 66 pre, hit a 6 on the 643 flop when you have 99 and jam, telling you they outplayed you when they win the hand and they are enjoying your chips in your stack.
aaight gang im pretty ignorant to it all myself. so there is a place where we can purchase the HH of other players? this is a bit much, u think?now is this cash and tourny play? its all a bit overwhelming! y is any of the software out there allowed? some1 explain! i think its all cheating! brick and mortar games wt do u have to rely on? the integrity/security is always gonna be in-questioned in online play. Now with all this poker software, designers are profiting by helping others cheat. how secure/safe is online poker really?
btw… where do u buy HH from
bjizz
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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I think the HH purchasing is more for cash games. I believe purchasing HHs is against site TOC but I'm not sure if anyone has gotten in trouble for it. Being primarily a tournament player I really haven't felt the need to investigate that.
I don't think I would purchase HHs, even if that was popular with tournament HHs but I have no problem using a HUD to display stats on the hands you have gathered with other players through directly playing with them. Remember your playing on a computer so it's just natural that the game will be adapted for the medium and leverage the advantages you can gain from technology within the rules.
July 3, 2010
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jshilling09 said:
I consider myself ethical, and I use Sharkscope all the time while playing. I don't know a lot of people that don't tbh. The rule is pretty dumb, and I think it is in place to stop people berating other people with their terrible stats when they call off half their stack pre with 66 pre, hit a 6 on the 643 flop when you have 99 and jam, telling you they outplayed you when they win the hand and they are enjoying your chips in your stack.
Seriously… that would be like if they told you it was going to be against the rules at the WSOP to look up people at your table during the break to see if they have any live winnings or to find out who they are.
Asinine thing to call using sharkscope “illegal”.
Thanks very much for the responses thus far!
I have checked out “SharkScope” and I am becoming familiar with it little by little. I also have to convince myself that these tools can eventually make me a better player; which from your responses, most of them can. I'll have more to add (and ask) after I check out “Holdem Manger”.
This “HH” stuff you guys are talking about…I'm guessing “HH” means “hand history” and why does that matter to me (other than my own)? “Buying databased HH”….what the heck does that mean? Seriously, is it the summary that matters? Eg: the summary may show my preflop range as 2-2+ and A-10+, or if I play enough is it that someone can actually obtain and figure out how I play every hand in every situation?? Whew, now I'm freaking myself out. I hope that is NOT the case or I need to find a new hobby.
Anyone please feel free and chime in and/or PM-me so I can try to get a grasp on this stuff. Again, my biggest fear is that I am playing online MTT's and SNG's already handicapped….like we are hitting baseballs and I am using a heavy wooden bat while my competition is using light, quick aluminum bats!!
PS- what's a “hand history converter”? (told you I'm a lost case…)
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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I wouldn't freak out too much here. I think whatever you read was exaggerating a little about the lower stakes. Yes, there are places to buy hand histories online and yes some people are buying them. At the low stakes it's not like there are these CIA operatives working together to take you down. Someone might have a few hands on you. Maybe it helps them with a decision. But it's not going to reveal everything about you. At the higher stakes all the players do have hands on each other and it's a handicap if you don't.
HH does mean hand history. If someone plays you and has holdem manager, it stores the results and then later it will give them information like what % you raise, what % you fold pre, how often you 3%, etc. The program loads up on top of the poker table and just posts a bunch of numbers. I made a video on this: …..leninjaft/
They aren't going to know how you play every hand in every situation but they will get a sense of whether you are tight, aggressive, passive, loose, etc.l
July 3, 2010
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As far as hand history purchasing …
It's a bigger deal if you're a cash game player. It suddenly lets you see what line a lot of regs take in different spots since it will seldom deviate from that and you have a huge advantage all of a sudden because you know how they'll play even though you have no history together.
10 people can run 14/12 stats but play post-flop pretty different from each other …
I wouldn't see the relevance in buying stored hands for tournament players.
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