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Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy Playing under PPs on a paired board…

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Playing under PPs on a paired board.

Phoebus

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December 1, 2013 - 8:55 am

Poker Stars $0.50+$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t75/t150 Blinds – 9 players – View hand 2370136
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

norby9 (MP2): t3235 21.57 BBs
Yaroslavvika (CO): t4137 27.58 BBs
BaHra555 (BTN): t5850 39 BBs
Vatvorius (SB): t3050 20.33 BBs
keppe67 (BB): t4815 32.10 BBs
Serhioan (UTG): t5640 37.60 BBs
Hero (UTG+1): t12536 83.57 BBs
andriuska18 (UTG+2): t5999 39.99 BBs
konovan (MP1): t7682 51.21 BBs

Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is UTG+1 with T of spades T of clubs
1 fold, Hero raises to t300, andriuska18 calls t300, 3 folds, BaHra555 calls t300, 1 fold, keppe67 calls t150

Flop: (t1275) 5 of diamonds Q of spades Q of clubs (4 players)
keppe67 checks, Hero bets t600, andriuska18 calls t600, BaHra555 folds, keppe67 folds

Turn: (t2475) 2 of hearts (2 players)
Hero bets t1120, andriuska18 raises to t2240, Hero calls t1120

River: (t6955) 8 of diamonds (2 players)
Hero checks, andriuska18 bets t1800, Hero calls t1800

Did I go wrong here?

Poking_Fun

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December 2, 2013 - 8:43 am

Preflop and flop bet looks fine.

Turn I think leading again is ok but I might check here to control the pot. For me, it is a way in front or way behind situation where I'm not sure you are getting worse hands to call. When you lead the turn here villain has to be concerned that you have hands like AA/KK, AQ/KQ/JQ etc so he might not even call a second barrel with hands like 66-88. The fact he raises with absolutely no apparent draws suggests he probably has a Q and I think I would sigh and fold mainly becuase I am going to have to likely face another barrel on the river when I check.

If you check call turn and check call river then I think you probably end up investing another 2k or so with a decent bluff catcher whereas here you have ended up investing 4k + on the turn/river with a hand that might be crushed anyway.

derSchwartz

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December 2, 2013 - 11:08 am

I’ve struggled in this spot too.

Had you played any hands with him? We he a call station? A crusher? Trappy?

I think the flop bet was good to represent a queen representing not having a queen.

Today I would hope to check the turn and see how things go, definitely calling small bets.

OneTime1Time

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December 2, 2013 - 4:23 pm

I agree that pre and flop both look perfectly fine.

I'm not a huge fan of betting this turn, because you have a lot of showdown value with your hand. There aren't any draws that are going to get there and villain is going to have a lot of smaller pairs in his range. While I may lose value by not betting turn, I don't mind giving up some value to get to a showdown cheaply.

As played, I am stumped about turn(not about what we should do, but what the heck he is doing). I've been thinking on this for the better part of an hour now, and I just feel his range has to be super nutted here. He's effectively raising half of his stack, and completely committing himself. My thoughts here are he feels that a shove is too strong, but the one book he read says he has to raise here… so he clicks it back. I have to give him AQ, KQ, QQ(played oddly given his stack size pre), QJ and 55, 22. These are assumed blindly though, as we don't know much more about villain. Given that, I really don't like the turn call. He has 2900 chips left in a pot of 7000, and we are going to have to call 3k to win 10k on the river, so we just don't have very much FE. Which brings us to the river…

This makes zero sense to me. He bets insanely small here and leaves himself with 1100 chips behind. For a micro stakes player who is likely quite bad, this screams monster. Try to look at the entire hand before it plays out… what would you have done if he shoved Turn. When you call his turn raise, you are effectively doing the same thing, even though he doesn't shove river. As played, as horrible as it makes me feel inside, I think this is a fold on the river. I guess someone could take this as a bluff line, but it seems so bad to me that I never really consider it.

This is a wierd spot, and I'm interested to see just what he shows up with, but my top dollars are on KQ or 55.

derSchwartz

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December 3, 2013 - 11:49 am

OneTime1Time said:

This is a wierd spot, and I'm interested to see just what he shows up with, but my top dollars are on KQ or 55.

I am curious as well. This may be giving him too much credit for having exactly what he represents on the turn, but my gut said 22 on this one.

WizardZur

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December 3, 2013 - 2:05 pm

Poking_Fun said:

Preflop and flop bet looks fine.

Turn I think leading again is ok but I might check here to control the pot. For me, it is a way in front or way behind situation where I'm not sure you are getting worse hands to call. When you lead the turn here villain has to be concerned that you have hands like AA/KK, AQ/KQ/JQ etc so he might not even call a second barrel with hands like 66-88. The fact he raises with absolutely no apparent draws suggests he probably has a Q and I think I would sigh and fold mainly becuase I am going to have to likely face another barrel on the river when I check.

If you check call turn and check call river then I think you probably end up investing another 2k or so with a decent bluff catcher whereas here you have ended up investing 4k + on the turn/river with a hand that might be crushed anyway.

This except I check/fold the turn. I don't need to be guessing with 84BB as I think there is more money to be made elsewhere.

Phoebus

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December 3, 2013 - 4:50 pm

He showed up with AQ

Poking_Fun

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December 4, 2013 - 4:35 am

WizardZur said:

Poking_Fun said:

Preflop and flop bet looks fine.

Turn I think leading again is ok but I might check here to control the pot. For me, it is a way in front or way behind situation where I'm not sure you are getting worse hands to call. When you lead the turn here villain has to be concerned that you have hands like AA/KK, AQ/KQ/JQ etc so he might not even call a second barrel with hands like 66-88. The fact he raises with absolutely no apparent draws suggests he probably has a Q and I think I would sigh and fold mainly becuase I am going to have to likely face another barrel on the river when I check.

If you check call turn and check call river then I think you probably end up investing another 2k or so with a decent bluff catcher whereas here you have ended up investing 4k + on the turn/river with a hand that might be crushed anyway.

This except I check/fold the turn. I don't need to be guessing with 84BB as I think there is more money to be made elsewhere.

I'm not sure I would check / fold the turn here as loads of players will call a bet with an underpair to that board and then bet when checked to on the turn, certainly in the online game in low stakes.

To be fair if villain bets turn after being checked to and then bets river strong then I think I happily fold the river and give him credit. Of course much of this is villain dependent anyway. If he is a nit I think check/fold turn is probably ok but if he is laggy and spewy then you probably give up way too much by folding at all.