Home
(0 votes) 
November 4, 2013
Offline
This hand was fun. To say the least.
We have just moved to the final 5 tables, top 5 stacks all at this table. Fireworks have been ensuing in the 10 hands or so we have been here. This is mostly read based, as I HUD doesn't have useful stats for Flash, but I have history with Alfons. I have tangled with Alfons twice so far, but not at all with Flash. I have been very active since we got to this table. By far the most active player.
Alfons is 38/27/18.8 over 32 hands. While this is a small sample size, having a 19% 3bet here does say something. He also 3 bet me a few hands prior with 22, and then flatted a raise a few hands later with KJ and flopped the nuts. That was actually the exact hand preceding this one.
Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t150000/t300000 Blinds + t30000 – 9 players – View hand 2377355
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
FLasHBa3k (SB): BB = 37.5, t11240573
zet1981 (BB): BB = 33.2, t9956810
Ali Bang (UTG): BB = 49.5, t14837010
Hero (UTG+1): BB = 44.9, t13457179
FU_15 (UTG+2): BB = 12.4, t3720138
helmut15 (MP1): BB = 36.7, t11008655
HU-Regular (MP2): BB = 7.8, t2345033
MagicViuff (CO): BB = 21.1, t6323786
Alfons777999 (BTN): BB = 48.2, t14449936
Pre Flop: (t720000) Hero is UTG+1 with A
K
1 fold, Hero raises to t600000, 4 folds, Alfons777999 raises to t1500000, FLasHBa3k raises to t3300000, 1 fold, Hero ??
I hate the idea of getting it in with AKo for 45BB this deep in a tournament. I had full intentions of 4 betting Alfons, and probably getting it in with him, but the 4 bet from Flash tosses a real monkey wrench in that idea.
That being said, it is very plausible that Alfons is 3 betting me light. In fact, i'm about 98% sure he is. He has BTN and has show a propensity to 3 bet. Anyone at the table paying attention should pick up on this fact. That means, 4 betting light is well within the reasonable plays from Flash. He would pick up 9 BB if he takes it down uncontested. Also, being in the SB, it will make his hand look very strong. The question we are faced with becomes simple… what now??? Are we prepared to get it in with AK off for 45 BB. Is that even a good idea?
April 29, 2013
Offline
Onetime,
3 choices:
1) Fold – can't do this, hand too strong
2) Shove – not a bad play as you're most likely ahead of Alfons (who will probably fold to your shove) and your hand is good enough to challenge Flash. Without stats on Flash, it's hard to say if he's capable of 4betting light as a bluff in SB, but his 4b is for 1/3 of his stack, so he's committed to calling a shove from you (unless it's a bluff). What hands is he committing himself with? AQs+, AK, TT or JJ+ Against this range (TT+) you're about a 43% dog (JJ+ as well). Maybe he's doing this as a 4b/fold bluff 10-20% of the time? I think this is worth the shove. But, maybe there's a better option:
3a) Call – you'll play IP vs. Flash possibly HU, and if Alfons just calls your range has him crushed as he'd likely shove bluffs and the top of his range (KK+ unless you have a better read here). You can get out on bad flops that Flash cbet bombs, and continue if you pair up or hit a combo draw. Something to consider: flop pot = 35bb's if Alfons calls and 29bb's if he folds. With the pot so big, it'll be hard for anybody to fold with any piece of the flop. Stack:pot ratios will be 1 or 1.2 to 1 for each player.
3b) Call/fold or call/call- if Alfons 5b squeeze shoves and Flash folds, then you'll have to make another decision regarding the strength of his hand. You've put 1/4 of your stack in at this point, but folding to a 5bet may be the best decision here. I don't generally call 5b ai's unless I have a lot of history with my opp and know that he's capable of doing this as a bluff at least part of the time or with marginal hands (his 19% 3bet stat is telling, but that's not indication enough that he'll put a 5bet out there with weak hands). Plus, if Alfons shoves and Flash calls, then you'll be confidently snap-folding with your remaining 34bb stack. One thing I try to remember with AK is that it's just an A and a K, and against a ton of aggression, esp multi-way, it may be best just to dump it.
I like that you had a plan when you opened for what you'd do regarding Alfons' 3b, but there's no shame in changing your plans when a cold 4bet joins the party.
My choice is to go with just calling the 4b pre, folding to further aggression, and continuing past the flop if I hit it well.
Thanks for the post,
Wacky
November 18, 2013
Offline
Shove it, Alfonso has to fold unless he has it your racing with flash and can’t be in that bad a shape against even QQ
Preserve table image, run deep
TPE Pro
August 3, 2011
Offline
With all factors considered, I am on board more often than not with getting it in. I wouldn't SHOVE AK here though. If I am getting it in I am 5 bet- 550k, calling it off and making it look much stronger. Could make him fold hands like 99s-JJs (sometimes JJ depending on nittiness), and could also give him room to monkey it in with worse if he is a non believer. I would shove the top KK/AA here sometimes to look like AK, but I don't really want AK to look like AK in this spot if that makes sense.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Offline
DannyN13 said:
With all factors considered, I am on board more often than not with getting it in. I wouldn't SHOVE AK here though. If I am getting it in I am 5 bet- 550k, calling it off and making it look much stronger. Could make him fold hands like 99s-JJs (sometimes JJ depending on nittiness), and could also give him room to monkey it in with worse if he is a non believer. I would shove the top KK/AA here sometimes to look like AK, but I don't really want AK to look like AK in this spot if that makes sense.
I'm on board with Danny. It's a tough spot but it isn't a bad spot for the cold-4bettor to be light here, and with so many chips in the pot already I think if we do get it in as a flip here then it's not the worst of results, considering that they fold a lot as well. I like the idea of shoving KK+ to look like AK and 5betting AK to look like KK+ as well. Sneaky.
November 4, 2013
Offline
Danny definitely provided an interesting idea, and I will admit that 5 betting for 40% or so of my stack never really came across my mind. At this point, I was pretty much shove or fold. I did consider folding. This was the first 4 bet I had seen this deep that wasn't a shove/reshove. It was also the first major preflop action we had at this table, although we were only about 15 hands in.
Given that this table was new, and we had the 5 top stacks at it, I wanted to do one of two things. Either fold, and make it look as if I was stealing, or shove and let them know I wasn't messing around, nor would I be easily pushed around. I wasn't 100% against folding, as there was enough aggression I could reasonably fold a large % of my pre flop raise range and be folding here… so not overly damaging to my image per se. However, I hate folding pre. I hate backing down, and am usually more than willing to go to war.
I decided to ship the biscuits into the middle, and find out just how seriously Flash was(I “knew” Alfons was just messing around with a light 3 bet). Alfons pretty much snap folds, and Flash tanked for about 35 seconds. I'm not sure if this was a legit decision, or if he was hollywooding to preserve his face, but he folded and I pickd up 5 million in chips.
On a sad note, I didn't get much of a chance to put them to work, or to take full advantage of my table image as the exact next hand was the one from the thread “Owning your mistakes”. I was bust from the tournament less than an orbit later.
March 26, 2013
Offline
theginger45 said:
DannyN13 said:
With all factors considered, I am on board more often than not with getting it in. I wouldn't SHOVE AK here though. If I am getting it in I am 5 bet- 550k, calling it off and making it look much stronger. Could make him fold hands like 99s-JJs (sometimes JJ depending on nittiness), and could also give him room to monkey it in with worse if he is a non believer. I would shove the top KK/AA here sometimes to look like AK, but I don't really want AK to look like AK in this spot if that makes sense.
I'm on board with Danny. It's a tough spot but it isn't a bad spot for the cold-4bettor to be light here, and with so many chips in the pot already I think if we do get it in as a flip here then it's not the worst of results, considering that they fold a lot as well. I like the idea of shoving KK+ to look like AK and 5betting AK to look like KK+ as well. Sneaky.
Yep, absolutely this. 4 bettor could well fold anything less than AK/AA/KK/QQ here and will almost certainly at times turn up with complete air given the table dynamics.
Most Users Ever Online: 2780
Currently Online:
47 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
bennymacca: 2616
Foucault: 2067
folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133
praetor: 1033
theginger45: 924
P-aire 146: 832
Turbulence: 768
The Riceman: 731
duggs: 591
florianm1: 588
Newest Members:
Tillery999
sdmathis89
ne0x00
adrianvaida2525
Anteeater
Laggro
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 24
Topics: 12705
Posts: 75003
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1063
Members: 12008
Moderators: 2
Admins: 5
Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos
Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1
