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Playing a different line, is it good, bad or indifferent.
Al29
Midstakes Master
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May 16, 2013 - 7:08 pm
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Hey there – I was playing the lowly $3.30 Velociraptor on Full Tilt earlier today, when I got a bit of stick from someone at the table for limping with AJ suited preflop – I then did the usual thing I'm sure we all do… …tell him politely I didn't need a lecture in poker strategy and then looked him up on sharkscope to see what his stats looked like, lol embarassed.

 

Anyways, I got to pondering that maybe my thinking was out of whack, so thought I'd post to see if I am warranted any further abuse for this play.

 

About 200 left in the tournament, I didn't have any stats on anyone as my HUD is currently playing up on Full Tilt – previous hand with blinds of 300/600 I had shoved with my stack of 9450 with KK to a preflop raise of 2400 and got called by JJ. This bumped me to 18046 in chips and very next hand it was limped to me in the CO with AJ suited, I was going to raise but as I'd got it all in previous hand I decided to just limp to induce action, and I wasn't afraid of action from either button or SB, if I got action from BB I would re-evaluate. Short stack SB shoved and I snap called, and his 6s held up. It was no great shakes in the grand scheme of things and I was happy to see 66 rolled over when I called – but one of the other stacks at the table said I deserved to lose chips for limping AJ and asked what range was I winning against with my hand.

 

Personally I've seen a lot of players do whacky things with a range that AJ suited dominates when they are short stacked and I felt a limp was preferable to a raise to get the shorter stacks in against me, but perhaps it's a sub-optimal play so would be good to hear any thoughts as usual – the great irony of it all is the guy who questioned my play was still there to see me bust out against a hand that was properly used to induce – I shoved A9 off on in the SB with 15BBs against an UTG limp who had just UTG+1 limped a previous hand and doubled up with 10J off – but this time he had limped with KK and sent me packing – I don't think my play was too crazy after seeing his previous limp and I think I was unlucky to walk into his trap, I was expecting him to call, but expecting a range that  I was beating – any thoughts on this too?

 

Hand history of AJ suited limp is below, and the A9 shove surprised cheers! I fixed pokertracker after today's update and re-imported hands, villain who limped was 20/9 overall for 55 hands with an 18/8 from EP. With an 18% range A9 is about 45% (?) and I have to assume there is some fold equity which is why I thought the shove would be profitable overall, hmmmm.

 

Full Tilt – 300/600 NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: …..racker.com

SB: 2,104.00
BB: 16,775.00
UTG: 6,508.00
UTG+1: 19,512.00
MP: 19,715.00
MP+1: 8,105.00
Hero (CO): 18,046.00
BTN: 7,748.00

SB posts ante 75.00, BB posts ante 75.00, UTG posts ante 75.00, UTG+1 posts ante 75.00, MP posts ante 75.00, MP+1 posts ante 75.00, Hero posts ante 75.00, BTN posts ante 75.00, SB posts SB 300.00, BB posts BB 600.00

Pre Flop: (1500.00) Hero has Ah Jh

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 600.00, fold, SB raises to 2,029.00 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 1,429.00

Flop: (5258.00, 2 players) 8d 7d 6h

Turn: (5258.00, 2 players) 6d

River: (5258.00, 2 players) 7s

SB shows 6c 6s (Four of a Kind, Sixes) (Pre 51%, Flop 94%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Ah Jh (Two Pair, Sevens and Sixes) (Pre 49%, Flop 6%, Turn 0%)
SB wins 5,258.00

Full Tilt – 400/800 NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: …..racker.com

UTG: 37,970.00
UTG+1: 11,766.00
MP: 16,654.00
MP+1: 16,199.00
CO: 26,202.00
BTN: 13,160.00
Hero (SB): 12,942.00
BB: 11,195.00

UTG posts ante 100.00, UTG+1 posts ante 100.00, MP posts ante 100.00, MP+1 posts ante 100.00, CO posts ante 100.00, BTN posts ante 100.00, Hero posts ante 100.00, BB posts ante 100.00, Hero posts SB 400.00, BB posts BB 800.00

Pre Flop: (2000.00) Hero has 9d As

UTG calls 800.00, fold, MP calls 800.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 12,842.00 and is all-in, fold, UTG calls 12,042.00, fold

Flop: (28084.00, 2 players) Th 8s Jd

Turn: (28084.00, 2 players) Td

River: (28084.00, 2 players) 4h

Hero shows 9d As (One Pair, Tens) (Pre 28%, Flop 40%, Turn 25%)
UTG shows Kc Kd (Two Pair, Kings and Tens) (Pre 72%, Flop 60%, Turn 75%)
UTG wins 28,084.00

MASTERHOLMES
Grinding Micros
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May 16, 2013 - 10:13 pm
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the ace jack limps to try to play a pot and get reshoved from the small blind.  that was more desirable then say shoving and seeing the bb wake up for more then 25 bbs. or raising,, see the shove,, and the reshove from the bb.

(i know it didnt' happen but lets not be results oriented).

 

as for the second hand

you got 3600 if they folded to add to your stack , however you do not have any fold equity for the limper who has only 8 bigs is getting big stack odds, so unless he is very bad,, your reshove is going to get called.

that is the old limp utg in hopes of getting reraised with great hand move.

for that stack size alone,, i don't like the shove, i would prefer ace queen suited plus(possibly king queen suited, or 9s or better.

markconkle
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May 16, 2013 - 10:19 pm
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Just want to make a note of something you said.  Villain said, “asked what range was I winning against with my hand.”  Just want to comment how terribly bad it is for villain to tell you he understands being ahead of a range.  Also how people who don't read the chat are missing out on potentially valuable information.

Al29
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May 17, 2013 - 3:17 am
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Hey Master – UTG had nearly 50 bigs which should make an A9 off shove more profitable with fold equity, I feel it was right move wrong time?

Mark – I hate seeing people query or criticise in chat, not only do you not want people to know how you think, but you don’t want to put a donk off coming back for more or educate him to improve his game!

MASTERHOLMES
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May 17, 2013 - 3:44 am
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sorry i saw utg plus one has 8 bbs as i read too fast.

big stack limping in though might be even more scarey , a pro might be able to answer that better as it isn't alwasy the old limp monster hoping for a shove type of hand. with that big stack.. i wonder myself.

danrose29
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May 17, 2013 - 5:00 pm
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i guess if u raise pre 66 will shove anyway but limp calling off seems fine i mean players r shoving far worse than ajs

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