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Frankc
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March 16, 2017 - 9:46 am
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So im in the nightly 7500 on BOL 39 players left, I have 56000 ,blinds 1500-3000  UTG who has shown down KK aa and AK most of the night opens to 10500  with 79000 behind , Im cut off 59000 in chips look down to see QQ  . I would like to call raise ,but don’t want to play OOP with this. But also want to see the flop before shoving if nothing threatens my hand. Well after a bout 30 seconds, I decide , hell lets ship it,maybe he tosses,maybe im racing ??? He snap calls with A 10 off , needless to say  turn and river show aces, he wiffed the flop. Can anyone make a case for calling the raise,then shipping the flop since we now know he wiffed ?

Frankc
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March 16, 2017 - 9:47 am
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sorry I wasn’t OOP I had position 

kardi31
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March 18, 2017 - 4:38 am
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So you start with 18-19BB, villain has 26BB. V opens 3x, in pot there is already around 18K with you holding 56K. 

If you would 3-bet, it would probably be between 23-29K which is half of your stack. Not really a great idea. 

I would much rather shove, getting a lot of fold equity (you cover 80% of your stack so he can’t get it in very lightly). If you would take down those 18K, that’s fine. If he get it in with worse, good for you.

 

Generally, I think you made a good move. Don’t be result-oriented. You had 70% equity pre-flop against AT . Had you won this hand, you’d have 140K and probably be one of chip leaders. 

Turbulence
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March 19, 2017 - 8:00 am
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Are you in the money at this point? Not that it really makes that much difference just curious. 

You are in the late stages of the tournament with 18bb and a premium holding and someone has opened in front, happy days. 3-betting small  looks way too suspect; flatting with this hand is  not a great idea either as it invites the BTN and blinds to come along as well, and whilst we have a v strong hand pre we dont really want to be multi-way to the flop with QQ; 3-bet shoving is absolutely the best way to go. 

You did absolutely the right thing in this hand, and got your opponent to get his chips in bad. The rest is down to variance, and she can be a cruel mistress, and one that we have no control over. 

aka Prophead340 aka Prophead2000 aka Turbulence_1

PocketFives Profile: .....urbulence/

Frankc
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March 19, 2017 - 7:49 pm
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Thanks guys for the responses, I was pretty sure I made the right move,just stinks it didn’t work out. Ive been playing a long time but never realy brushed up on situationsi put myself in. I don’t use software or anything that analyzes hands,just trying to pay close attn. to player bets,patterns etc   Next subject I need to realy concentrate on is patience. I find my attn. wandering and playing hands that get me in trouble more often than not, I used to be able to make it deep in tournaments,hell in November on the same day I took down the 44 rebuy for 4000 and the 22 rebuy for 2700  since then I find I sometimes cant even make it to the first break

 

any advice ?

Frankc
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March 19, 2017 - 7:54 pm
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I find myself tilting when I take a bad beat or even when I get outplayed. For some reason if I make top pair top kick   I find it almost impossible to lay my hand down. My brain doesn’t seem to get to the point of thinking   hey maybe your beat,set 2 pair bigger over pair…I have a lot to work on ,makes me say how do I play well enough to take 2 tourneys down in one day   to playing like a complete donkey who cant fold or make the break other days

Frankc
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March 19, 2017 - 7:59 pm
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oh and yes I was in the money,paid 40 players and I finished 39

theginger45

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March 19, 2017 - 9:31 pm
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Absolutely nothing different you could have done here with 20bb and QQ.

Think long and hard about whether you would still have posted this thread if you had won the hand, or if villain had folded. I suspect the answer is no. Be very careful about results-oriented thinking.

Nas47
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March 26, 2017 - 12:16 am
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Frankc said
I find myself tilting when I take a bad beat or even when I get outplayed. For some reason if I make top pair top kick   I find it almost impossible to lay my hand down.

If you have not seen it watching Andrew’s “Getting off on the Right Foot” video series can help you have a better mind set on how we should think about poker including dealing with variance and what it means to win. Gl at the tables!

Frankc
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March 26, 2017 - 3:10 pm
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Nas47 said

Frankc said
I find myself tilting when I take a bad beat or even when I get outplayed. For some reason if I make top pair top kick   I find it almost impossible to lay my hand down.

If you have not seen it watching Andrew’s “Getting off on the Right Foot” video series can help you have a better mind set on how we should think about poker including dealing with variance and what it means to win. Gl at the tables!  

Thanks for the advice I’ll check it out.   Guess my next question is. Early on in tourneys say 10 20 blinds.  I find myself almost wanting to fold aces or kings.  You can’t open for too much because obviously it screams big hand but of course I want to get value for them.  Any advice on playing these hands with such small blinds ? 3x or even 4 x pee flop usually gets at least 3 calls pre flop with such small blinds.  

 

All advice welcome 

Nas47
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March 29, 2017 - 5:32 pm
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Frankc said

Thanks for the advice I’ll check it out.   Guess my next question is. Early on in tourneys say 10 20 blinds.  I find myself almost wanting to fold aces or kings.  You can’t open for too much because obviously it screams big hand but of course I want to get value for them.  Any advice on playing these hands with such small blinds ? 3x or even 4 x pee flop usually gets at least 3 calls pre flop with such small blinds.  

 

All advice welcome   

I understand where you are coming from. However, you can’t play tournament poker well with a fear mindset. There is a lot of variance in poker and 1/5 times all-in pre flop we lose with AA vs any pair. The only thing you can do is make the best play with the amount of knowledge you have currently and learn from the outcome. Your bet size doesn’t matter as much as the concern you have with your aces getting cracked. Folding AA or KK should almost never be a thing (maybe in a satellite and on the bubble where u are certain to cash you can fold KKs). It is just not a thing. If you run KK into AA it sucks but that is what you should accept when u play tournament poker. Getting coolered is part of the game ( I recommend Andrew’s videos again as he goes into such concepts very well). The answer to your question on bet sizing, there is no magic sizing unfortunately that will get you max value as it depends on a lot of factors such as position, your exact stack size, your table image, your previous raise sizings, the table stack size distribution, the sb and bb stacks size , etc. Sometimes the best thing to do is to shove for max value if you anticipate getting called light and you are short or you can choose to raise and induce action i.e in a bounty with a decent bounty on you head. Sometimes you should raise if you have a range for doing so. Sometimes you should limp to trap i.e a very aggro player in the BB and you are SB and you expect him to shove on you. In short, you should THINK. Think about the best option in the situation and do your best. Learn to take joy in the right plays you make even if the outcome is not favorable. Play with no fear…or with as little fear as possiblesmile. GL
 

theginger45

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March 31, 2017 - 12:25 pm
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Frankc said

Thanks for the advice I’ll check it out.   Guess my next question is. Early on in tourneys say 10 20 blinds.  I find myself almost wanting to fold aces or kings.  You can’t open for too much because obviously it screams big hand but of course I want to get value for them.  Any advice on playing these hands with such small blinds ? 3x or even 4 x pee flop usually gets at least 3 calls pre flop with such small blinds.  

 

All advice welcome   

This is a really broad question but I’ll take a stab at it.

The biggest problem affecting you here is thinking too much about specific hands. Each individual hand you play in each spot is merely one of many different hands you could have – your range. You don’t want to be thinking about how to play one individual hand, because if you do that you end up playing each specific hand in its own specific way, and your hand is very often going to be face-up to your opponents.

In addition, you’re looking at the blinds the wrong way. It’s not the ‘small blinds’ that are the issue, it’s the deep stacks. Playing 10/20 with 200 chips is exactly the same as playing 10,000/20,000 with 200,000 chips. The reason you’re getting so many callers is because when stacks are very deep, people are much more inclined to call a preflop raise.

You seem to be approaching it as if getting multiple callers is a problem – in reality, it’s not, because you accomplished your goal of growing the pot. You just need to know how to play the hand postflop. I imagine what’s happening here is your fear of postflop mistakes is leading you to make different preflop decisions to try to avoid those mistakes.

You can cut that line of thinking about folding aces or kings preflop off right where it is. There are certain very specific circumstances where folding KK is acceptable, and in satellites it’s plausible that folding AA can happen, but what’s happening is your fear of losing a big pot (or even of playing a big pot), or your fear of taking a bad beat, or of something else entirely, is driving your thinking.

Loss aversion is a big part of human psychology – we try harder to hold onto what we have than to acquire something new. In poker, it needs to be the opposite way around. Forget about preserving your stack or avoiding big pots. Focus on getting value from your opponents. If you get it all in for 200 big blinds with AA vs QQ and lose, just load up another tournament and move on.

Frankc
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April 1, 2017 - 4:20 pm
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Thanks guys for the reply . You seemed to hit it right on the head. I find myself playing sometimes to preserve my stack rather than grow it. The line “load up another tourney if I get cracked is absolutely great advice.

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