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Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy pearljammer hand jj fold pre

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pearljammer hand jj fold pre

badabing78

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July 26, 2011 - 5:53 am

this is from the “winning poker tournaments one hand at a time vol1” book

hand #6

150$ freezeout blinds 20-40

hijack (6120) raise 120

sb (2805) reraise 320

bb hero (3115) holds JJ FOLD

would anyone here make this fold?

the only time i would do so is when i know sb very well and know that he is an extreme tight player and i'm sure he would only make this 3b with a premium. or this would be a utg raise and a mp 3b

but as given i have often seen a light 3b from the blinds vs a late pos raise also early in tournaments.

pearljammer has a 1 page explanation why he makes the fold- assigned ranges and not the right implied odds to set mine, about the assigned range for sb:“reraise from the sb,oop,and by reraising less than 3 times the initial raise, he appears to want action. given his action at this early stage, i can CONFIDENTLY put him on a very narrow range QQ+,AK ALMOST EVERY TIME!!!”

without a history with that guy(sb) i think its very hard to assign this range “almost every time” and make this fold. am i wrong???

sammyboy

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Guests

July 26, 2011 - 7:56 am

W/out history its also hard not to put him on that range imo.

i.e. if you know he can 3bet light early, or spew lower pp to JJ then yes raise (or call), but without that history in a $150 should we not just assume solid play until we see otherwise?

Is this scenario online or live?

hapetimes

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Guests

July 27, 2011 - 3:40 am

pretty conservative imo

he's got 78bb's to start the hand – we probably dont have the direct implied odds to set mine but why cant we be more aggressive and 4bet? im sure we're deep enough

maybe this is a leak of mine playing big pots early

i dunno

FkCoolers

Cambridge, Ma (Central Square)

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July 27, 2011 - 7:30 am

If you 4 bet you'd need to cold 4 bet jam there because you're turning your hand into 72o if you raise to something like 800 and then fold to a 5 bet jam.

And the hand range for a SB 5 bet jam is basically QQ+ and AK so it's a -EV move.

badabing78

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Guests

July 27, 2011 - 7:45 pm

@sammy: its a online scenario, i wouldnt care that much that it is a 150$ tourney, there are also a ton of bad players playin the higher buyins

hmm i wont 4bet here, but i think call and reevaluate on the flop in position would be no that bad. i understand the explanation of pj that teh implied odds to set mine are not that good given the smaller stacksize of the sb . but theres also a possiblility the hijack pays too and we hit the set. than we would have the right io, right?

honestly i never thought about making this fold, and i was kinda stunned when i read this. but by thinking about this a while now, maybe its really a option in the future cause JJ or TT often leads to trouble and often it would be the best to fold them pre to a 3b action … would be interesting what the pros think about this fold!!!

Wein

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Guests

July 28, 2011 - 12:31 am

I fold or flat. Fkcoolers is dead on with his assessment in this hand. If you are 4-betting, your hand is the same as 32o. With no antes or really a lot of chips to go after, I just don't see the point of 4-balling.

hapetimes

Guest

Guests

July 28, 2011 - 8:58 am

ok i actually agree that 4betting is turning our hand into a bluff – terrible thought hapetimes!

i suppose i was meant to clarify that my potential leak is that i would never have considered folding this hand pre-flop, leaving me with the option of flatting or 4 betting (which i now realise is not optimal)

so now im confused b/c we can really only flat to set mine, and get away from virtually any non J board

OR just muck pre flop

but the 2nd metacarpo-phalangeal joint on my Right hand wont let me smile