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pair into bluff
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jedimindpicks
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April 9, 2015 - 5:17 pm
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So I end up getting this bluff through.
I feel like my line here is not the best really, and I’m wondering about the flop and turn as played.
In game this seemed like an easy spot to 3bet river and rep a big flush. Any thoughts or opinion is much appreciated.
Only 64 hands in villain at the time but looked TAG from the little info I had but I’m not sure how I am counting on them at this point.

partypoker – $5+$0|100/200 NL – Holdem – 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 5,575
MP+1: 8,930
MP+2: 9,510
Hero (CO): 7,793
BTN: 7,020
SB: 7,970
BB: 4,820
UTG: 6,000
UTG+1: 3,276

9 players post ante of 20, SB posts SB 100, BB posts BB 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 480) Hero has Tspade Kspade

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, [color=red]Hero raises to 400[/color], fold, fold, BB calls 200

Flop: (1,080, 2 players) 3club Qclub Tdiamond
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (1,080, 2 players) 7club
[color=red]BB bets 600[/color], Hero calls 600

River: (2,280, 2 players) Jclub
[color=red]BB bets 800[/color], [color=red]Hero raises to 3,510[/color],

SIGABA
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April 10, 2015 - 10:25 pm
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His bet sizing looks like he doesn't like the river, so I like the raise there.  But what were you planning on doing if the club didn't come?

folding_aces_pre_yo
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April 11, 2015 - 11:34 am
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The question shouldnt be should i bluff here or not,though what u have to ask yourself is , how wide should your bluffing range be?

 

I actually think turning your hand into a bluff is good here, i think the top of villians range here is probably Qx and i do believe they v will fold these on this run out. though , i think your sizing is to big , i reckon we can go smaller here around 2k ish IMO espically vs better players.

 

well played btw 🙂

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April 11, 2015 - 11:59 am
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I like it, but bet flop. I suspect this is a spot where you're turning your hand more or less face up with the flop check. You won't be a big favorite, but you should actually be a favorite vs Villain's check-calling or check-raising range.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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April 11, 2015 - 2:27 pm
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@foucault , in the back of my mind i was thinking bet flop, though given that we are IP , i thought backloading our value would be better here? so we can get more information about our hand,  though the board is pretty wet, so i think we can still get value from FDs and maybe straight draws and from Tx.

 

frontloading our value has more merit overall.

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April 11, 2015 - 2:38 pm
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You aren't going to have a value hand on a lot of turns, though, and it's not clear to me that you're getting information about your hand by checking – certainly not as much as you're giving away. I mean, look here, Villain bets turn, what information does that give you? It's a great spot for him to value bet any Queen or better with confidence and also fire a ton of bluffs because Hero probably never has a flush and very rarely anything that can beat a Q.

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April 11, 2015 - 2:39 pm
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If you are watching my Range Construction series, one of the important lessons to take away is how much better it is to be the player holding the polarized range than the one with the bluff-catcher. Checking back exclusively medium-strength hands automatically puts you in the bluff-catcher seat.

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jedimindpicks
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April 11, 2015 - 3:39 pm
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SIGABA said:

His bet sizing looks like he doesn't like the river, so I like the raise there.  But what were you planning on doing if the club didn't come?

I think as played I'm calling a river bet if no club vs a BB defend but I don't really like it.

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jedimindpicks
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April 11, 2015 - 3:42 pm
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folding_aces_pre_yo said:

@foucault , in the back of my mind i was thinking bet flop, though given that we are IP , i thought backloading our value would be better here? so we can get more information about our hand,  though the board is pretty wet, so i think we can still get value from FDs and maybe straight draws and from Tx.

 

frontloading our value has more merit overall.

Yeah I agree I think I am almost always betting here on the flop, I have been trying out a few check back flop plays vs BB defends. I'm not sure I like this spot to do so at all. Thanks for the input.

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jedimindpicks
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April 11, 2015 - 3:53 pm
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Foucault said:

You aren't going to have a value hand on a lot of turns, though, and it's not clear to me that you're getting information about your hand by checking – certainly not as much as you're giving away. I mean, look here, Villain bets turn, what information does that give you? It's a great spot for him to value bet any Queen or better with confidence and also fire a ton of bluffs because Hero probably never has a flush and very rarely anything that can beat a Q.

Thanks for the feed back Andrew, I think I just tried to do something here tricky or just in effort to pot control I'm not totally sure. I am mostly always cbetting when in pos and hit the flop because I'm am cbetting quite a bit when I miss and quite often vs a BB defend in HU pot. Maybe sticking with that strat is best even though it worked out for me in this spot maybe its just not a great way to play this hand at all. I need to cue up that series next it seems.

 

I have been mixing up my play a bit vs some of theese opponents whom seem to do really spewey stuff with big bluffs when weakness is shown (checking back flop) in some smaller games and so far it has paid off quite a bit in general but I guess what I am getting at and what you have pointed out to me is this kind of play in tougher games is not going to cut it. 

folding_aces_pre_yo
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April 12, 2015 - 12:51 pm
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I've not watched your range construction series but I will do, sounds good!

 

Yeah when v bets turn that don't give me hardly any information at all , you're right. So basically by checking back flop , we're pretty much capping our range, hero will very rarely have anything better then a Queen so that allows villian to value bet wider and also make life very difficult for us by the time we get to the river.

 

may i ask though , if the flop was 3spade Qclub Tdiamond (rainbow) i'd actually want to backload our value , would that be okay? i'd check back for pot control and maybe induce a bluff from villian on the turn. 

 

Though betting flop would be okay as well even on that rainbow flop , we could get value from weaker Tx maybe A3o or maybe pairs small to medium pairs , if called we can check back turn and re-evaluate river? Also i must add i'd be more inclined to bet turn if say the turn brings any draws like 6club if called we can check back river. If villian leads river whether we call or not  that'll just depend on the odds we're getting and how often we have to call to make villian indifferent to bluffing.

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April 12, 2015 - 9:31 pm
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Definitely think I'm betting the flop here, and the discussion ITT makes me very excited to watch Andrew's new video series. The river play looks pretty good to me here too.

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April 14, 2015 - 2:43 pm
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Bet the flop!

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