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November 4, 2013
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It's really easy for us to come in and ask questions about hands we were unsure, but part of becoming a better player is realizing when we make mistakes, and owning them. I made a mistake in this hand. It's very possibly a mistake that cost me a very real chance at my 2nd SunMill FT in a month. The good news is I know exactly what the mistake was, so I can do my best to correct it in the future.
The reason I'm posting this hand, and even including the results isn't to generate a discussion about how I should have or shouldn't have played this hand.. but rather to discuss the mistake I made, and hopefully help someone else from making the same mistakes, or realizing one they do and they can share with us.
There is a lot of set up that goes with this hand. We had just moved down to 5 tables, and we had all 5 of the top 5 stacks at this table. Que the fireworks! I had been pretty aggro since we got here, because I had been getting hands. The exact hand before this was a big one that I'll post about in another thread. I am chip leader here. Villain has lost about 30% of his stack recently, in a hand I wasn't involved in. Fwiw, he plays this hand pretty much perfectly agaisnt me at this time.
Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t150000/t300000 Blinds + t30000 – 9 players – View hand 2377332
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
FLasHBa3k (BTN): BB = 26.4, t7910573
zet1981 (SB): BB = 32.1, t9626810
Ali Bang (BB): BB = 49.4, t14807010
Hero (UTG): BB = 62.7, t18797179
FU_15 (UTG+1): BB = 12.3, t3690138
helmut15 (UTG+2): BB = 36.6, t10978655
HU-Regular (MP1): BB = 7.7, t2315033
MagicViuff (MP2): BB = 21.0, t6293786
Alfons777999 (CO): BB = 43.1, t12919936
Pre Flop: (t720000) Hero is UTG with 9
9
Hero raises to t600000, 1 fold, helmut15 calls t600000, 6 folds
Flop: (t1920000) 4
3
4 (2 players)
Hero bets t888888, helmut15 raises to t1777776, Hero raises to t2666664, helmut15 raises to t10348655 all in, Hero calls t7681991
Turn: (t22617310) 7 (2 players – 1 is all in)
River: (t22617310) 8 (2 players – 1 is all in)
Final Pot: t22617310
Hero shows 9 9 (two pair, Nines and Fours)
helmut15 shows K K (two pair, Kings and Fours)
helmut15 wins t22617310
So, the hand probably looks pretty innocent, albeit horribly played by me in retrospect. The mistake comes with my timing, which a HH can't show. For the entire tournament, I've been very diligent about taking my time with decisions. Thinking through my bets, and trying to always go for a set time before taking actions. I didn't do that this hand, after my initial C/bet. I pretty much acted instanly, which is evident by me clicking it back for the 3bet. I never do this, unless I'm spazzing out and not thinking. I fully believe if I had stopped to think this through, I would of been able to find a fold at some point in this hand, albeit not likely on the flop. I guess if I had clicked back and thought about his shove before clicking call, I can absolutely find one there. He is never jamming this flop with anything less than QQ. He is for sure never doing it with 55-88.
The key lesson here I want to impart is to make sure you take the time to think things through. Do not pull a knee-jerk reaction and click buttons without a reason. My plan broke down, my mental side broke down, and it just got worse from here. End result was me dusting off Chip Lead and a 64BB stack in 2 hands.
November 4, 2013
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Well said OneMoreTime. Owning my mistakes has been a lesson I've had to repeatedly learn, and am still learning despite sometimes feeling good at it. I made some mistakes today that I haven't really looked at yet, and it's a mistake until I do.
It's funny about posting hands. I've noticed there has been a decision making process that goes into which hands I post. I don't want to spam the forum with all of my question hands, so I should choose the best ones to learn from. But I'm still struggling to keep my ego out of the hands I post. Every so often I post a hand I know I played very badly, and the intention there is to own that mistake (such as my J6 BB special hand). But sometimes I do post a hand with part of the reason being for reassurance of ego. And sometimes I don't post a hand because I am embarrassed about it. When I do that I can only hope I've learned enough lessons from self review that I don't miss out too much from owning it here.
I think reassurance is important if, for example, we're trying to confirm that a play we made is profitable and we're not sure because it was high varience. But reassurance for our egos is probably not necessary, unless we're in need of mending from a downswing or something.
I'm going to try to force myself to look back at the games I played this morning so I can find the mistakes that got laughed away too quickly.
November 7, 2013
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Excellent points, I think this is super key.
I came from a game type background before this where the smallest amount of ego and failure to think through your decisions had far reaching effects. One of the biggest edges I was able to exploit against my opponents was my ability to set aside my ego and think tactically and long term.
It's weird how you can work so hard to build a stack and then in one lapse in judgement spew it all off, honestly though I love that it's this hard to keep control of everything because it's just one more thing that is hard for people to master and thus becomes a VERY profitable edge.
2 Sunday Million Final Tables in one month?!?! You must be sick good.
November 4, 2013
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I didn't make this FT… I busted 39th, but it was two super deep runs. I won't say i'm sick good, just that I was making the right choices in the right spots, and my KK was absolutely unstoppable. I had KK 8 times in 620 hands. I busted 6 players the 5 times I got action. It was crazy.
I often get upset when I make mistakes like this, and yesterday was no different. I was still slightly mad with myself today.. because as you said, one lapse in judgement can dust off HOURS of work. We were 11.5 hours deep at this point, and I had been playing for nearly 15. I was mentally burned out, and I feel that attributed to my brain turning off. I'll need to find a way to stay focused that long, because a good Sunday will always be a long Sunday.
November 7, 2013
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Meh, I view the disappointment as a good thing. At least you know where you went wrong.
I notice my brain turns off after too long as well.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Owning your mistakes is really important. It's great you've cottoned onto that early on.
As regards the hand in question, I would be somewhat cautious of his preflop flat from that position, and when raised on such a dry flop I would expect it to be either complete air (of which there isn't much in his range – he doesn't have JTs very often here) or a very strong hand. I might just call the flop raise and see a turn card in case he did shut down with some of his few bluffs, but I wouldn't 3bet the flop to induce. He's not raise/4betting with 88 on that flop, so I don't think you ever get it in vs a worse hand.
November 4, 2013
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theginger45 said:
Owning your mistakes is really important. It's great you've cottoned onto that early on.
As regards the hand in question, I would be somewhat cautious of his preflop flat from that position, and when raised on such a dry flop I would expect it to be either complete air (of which there isn't much in his range – he doesn't have JTs very often here) or a very strong hand. I might just call the flop raise and see a turn card in case he did shut down with some of his few bluffs, but I wouldn't 3bet the flop to induce. He's not raise/4betting with 88 on that flop, so I don't think you ever get it in vs a worse hand.
This is pretty much the conclusion I came to about… 8 seconds after I played the hand. The problem here was I shut my brain off and didn't even consider what he was doing/what hand he had. I started clicking buttons. It was very very difficult for me to accept this for a while after the tournament… but in the end I was on hour 15 of playing poker, and I simply made a mistake.
March 26, 2013
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I think the other thing to be mindful of here is that the mistake is magnified in your mind because of the money on offer in this tournament. To put it another way, you are probably beating yourself up about it more than you should simply because you made it in The Sunday Million rather than another 'normal' event. Learn from it and move on so that next time you are deep in this in two weeks time you take it down 
November 4, 2013
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It's kind of reassuring to see good players make plays they later regard as mistakes. It's not that I want you to make mistakes, OneMoreTime, but it reminds me that I don't have to feel horrible about myself if I make a mistake.
I appreciate that when I post a bad play on here it gets respectful responses and the environment is extremely safe. Part of this is due to other people posting their own mistakes, including some of the advice givers/coaches.
October 21, 2012
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I railed you in this and I saw those KK hands. It was unbelieveable. I was like again? And how did they always hold up? I guess the key to getting more than 1 one time is to name yourself more than 1 one time.
We all can have a mental lapse after 15 hours. I actually remove my hand from the mouse and occassionally sit on it to force me to think before I act. Finger tilt is real.
But otherwise I think you played great.
I wonder if a call flop fold turn is better than 3-bet/fold flop? I think he is more likely to continue with a bluff vs a call than he would to a 3bet.
November 4, 2013
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I think that call flop and fold turn is the most likely line here. The only thing he could do is check turn and that really makes his hand tough to read, causing us to call a river bet, which he could size pretty nasty.
As played, I think folding after my 3 bet is an absolute must. I will give the villain credit, he played his hand perfectly. If he 3 bet me pre, this doesn't happen. At worst, I 4 bet fold then, but more likey flat and try to get to shwdown as cheap as possible.
Thanks for all the positive comments guys, it is nice to have that reassurance. Without a doubt, I take this harder because of the tournament it was, but in the end, I'm pretty much this hard on myself in all tournaments I play. I don't like making mistakes. Especially when they cause me the kind of deep run that can change the course of my life.
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