Looking for some opinions on 3-betting light (without shoving)
What do you consider a deep enough stack to be able to 3-bet light without committing to the pot?
What stack size of your opponent is optimal to 3-bet light against?
What do you consider when determining the size of your 3-bet? Position? Stack size of opponent? Your stack? Etc
What point of the tournament should you start to work this into your game? Anytime during antes or wait until there are bigger pay jumps on the line to use pressure?
Do you consider your hand at all or do you stictly play the opponent? Any hands to avoid while 3-betting light?
Anything else that you feel is important would be very helpful.
Thanks!
July 3, 2010
PrimoMM26 said:
Looking for some opinions on 3-betting light (without shoving)
What do you consider a deep enough stack to be able to 3-bet light without committing to the pot? 35 bb or more
What stack size of your opponent is optimal to 3-bet light against? Same. He needs to have room to fold and not feel committed
What do you consider when determining the size of your 3-bet? Position? Stack size of opponent? Your stack? Etc Yes. All of these.
What point of the tournament should you start to work this into your game? Anytime during antes or wait until there are bigger pay jumps on the line to use pressure? I like to wait a couple levels into antes where there is more dead money but if you have good spots and people will fold I see no reason to wait.
Do you consider your hand at all or do you stictly play the opponent? Any hands to avoid while 3-betting light?
Both hand and opponent are considered – the tighter and more passive opponent is, the less our cards matter. Avoid 3 betting hands like TT and JJ which you will fold if faced with a big all in bet. This is turning your hand into a total bluff. TT and JJ are too strong to be bluffs.
Anything else that you feel is important would be very helpful.
Practice, practice, practice… review sessions and see what worked and what did now.
Thanks!
answers bolded above – far from an expert but that is an ok start
One area you failed to mentioned with is the 3-bet is early on as this a fav of mine. With 150bb and 15min levels very useful as it doesn't cost much to put your villians on a hand range. With time on your side, easy to recover if things go south, easy to get away from heavy 4bet, cheap to call light. Can cbet cheaper as well. Without the goods I want postion if villian is aggro, passive and you can make this work from sb or bb if sb is out. Hands I'm looking to do with is connectors including single and double gappers, suited or not, no paint. Easy to see where your at. Can cbet alot of boards againest passive get the fold or check behind the aggro to see how much the turn improves you. Slamming your villian with (preceived) junk when they think ak is god is much easier find at that point as well. It makes me lol how many will call all in on the flop without hitting. One thing will say is I prefer unsuited to suited when called by 3 or more villians (this will happen in micro), you can be sure that if two give any action one is drawing to the higher flush with unsuited much easier where your at. Suited prefered when two call pre and one left post. Once one of these hands goes to show down you will be tested more and will need to be more selective in your villian and who is left to act. I'll stop here as this is an area that can go to depths I'd rather listen than talk about. Just thought this was something worth mentioning and interested to see if others agree.
Metasploit said:
Great reply Fk.
I have / had alot of the same questions regarding 3-betting light and this thread helps alot. Now all I need is to muster up the courage to 3-bet light more often vs LP openers who have the right stack and very high VPIP and PFR numbers.
Cheers
Even with 3 betting lite you always should have some kind of hand thats plays post flop nicely if you're picking a spot unless of course you've observed someone getting a little too greedy with the blinds, I'll 3-bet these players with any two if I see them opening to much. My reasoning for assigning this range is so that if you are called you can still crush a flop often enough to stack people who miss assign your 3-betting range. (Range): middle pairs, suited aces, suited connecters and monster hands. (Frequency): I try to stay active at a minimum of one hand an orbit, if i miss an orbit due to action or just being card dead this is when I start look for good 3-bet shove spots. I also open up my 3-bet game the larger my stack gets. Also, as the money and final table bubbles approach it can be a massive chip boost to open your 3bet game. Also, Remember the more often you 3bet the less credit people give you for a hand this will eventually get your monster hands payed off as well. (Adjusting): If you are getting played back at a good bit and folding or end up showing down a weaker 3bet you need to mentally note these players causing this and tighten up vs them with the exception of if the player who 4bet you and got a fold if he opens mid-late position he will usually fold to your 2nd 3bet most people think you have it the 2nd time for some reason. otherwise adjust, you could hemorage your self into a short stack pretty quick 3bet folding. (Bet sizing): fisher players need less incentive to call so If I've noticed a player who likes to see a flop I'll make my 3bets a bit larger [2.8-4BB] depending on position how fishy the player [later position=larger]. Otherwise I try to make it like [2.3-2.7BB] (Stack size): I never play this type of game with < 35BB because my game shifts styles to more resteal shoves < 30BB and I'd like to have >20BB if I end up having to release the hand Also, be mindful of the stacks behind you can price yourself in to calling a short stacks 4bet that you might not want to call. Even if you fold it will be obvious to everyone you were lite.
I've put alot of thought and practice into this type of game its by no means perfect but I've steam rolled a tourny or two successfully playing this type of game, it almost works its self into a rhythm once it works and the table will end up giving you way more credit than deserved. Let me know what you think and if anyone thinks of anything I've left out please let me know. I hope this helps!
something i have been trying to do more lately. One thing I have found to help me get more comfortable with it is do 3 bet light from the button, with deep stacks and a hand that plays well psot like suited connectors etc. Makes life much easier when you do get called by the original raiser to be in position and to have your decisions be a little easier post flop.
One thing you'll notice from my Stick it to the Man video is that I would 3 bet light but not c-bet enough. After the pros beat me up on this I think I plugged a major leak in my game. You can pick up so many chips this way. You obviously have to have a big enough stack that your 3bet + 1/2 pot CBet don't leave you crippled so I usually stop 3 betting light < 35bbs and then start focusing on spots where I'm getting all my money in no matter what (or just simple light opens if the spot dictates)
ytseshred said:
Wow that was an extremely well written post, thanks flgtb786!
No problem man, I think this scratches the surface of the substance that the pros and successful poker players are made of. I am curious to see if this meshes with what all the pros here think.
October 6, 2010
flgtb786 said:
ytseshred said:
Wow that was an extremely well written post, thanks flgtb786!
No problem man, I think this scratches the surface of the substance that the pros and successful poker players are made of. I am curious to see if this meshes with what all the pros here think.
put a few extra lines in there though next time, walls of text are hard to read
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