View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Open Raise Sizing: Early Stages
Julius187
Guest
Guests
1
February 27, 2012 - 8:22 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I would like to start a discussion on what people think about open raise sizes for the early stages of MTTs. I have seen various styles from different instructors on this site, as well as through my experiences. While this applies both live and online, I am more interested in what people use for live play. So post what your strategy is, and hopefully some of the pros will chime in, and we can all learn something.

Before visiting this recently, I would usually 3x in the early levels until about 100/200, and then gradually drop in size until I leveled out at about 2.1-2.2x at the 500/1000 level and use sizings near there for the rest of the tournament.

Mike Leah in his video open min-raises for the entirety of the tournament (online at least, I don't know if he does this live). I have experimented with this strategy over the last 10 or so tournaments, and while I found myself building chips in the early stages, I never had quite a big enough stack to carry me through the mid-stages. I realize that there can be a ton of other things that can attribute to this (aggression level, toughness of table, variance, timing, etc.).

So I would like to hear some thoughts and opinions, so I can get this monkey off my back and hopefully have a successful March!

SJOHN11
Guest
Guests
2
February 28, 2012 - 12:06 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Ye this is a topic im interested in.  Mike Leah advises the min raise from the start, and so does Danny in his Turbo vids.  However, Big Dog likes to 3x early in MTTs to polarise ranges and build pots.

 

Iv tried both and after some time have kind of settled somewhere in the middle. I raise 3x up to 40/80 then 2.5x 50/100 then 2.25 there on. Im more comfortable 3x ing in early stages as i like to polarise ranges as well, and as im only ever playing premiums in the early levels, i also think its better to 3x so u get max value for these premiums.

 

Someone mentioned about writing an article on this subject, i think it might of been Danny — i would b very interested like u to hear the thoughts of Danny or other TPE pros on betsizing, i would especially b interested whether they think certain betsizing strategies work better at low, mid and high stakes.

DannyN13

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 305
Member Since:
August 3, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
February 28, 2012 - 3:33 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I min everything from start to finish. I am super tired and should be asleep long ago but decided to play like 50 $100 6 max hypers to go on a rollercoaster before bed lol. I will respond to this thread in a well thought out and written manner as to why I min raise right from the get go but it may be in a day or 2 when I get some free time. Love the thread tho and cant wait for responses!

swhitelex
Guest
Guests
4
February 28, 2012 - 11:39 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Would it matter bet sizing whether you were playing in a turbo or not? I am tinkering around with both 3x at early stages and the min raise and honestly, to me it seems different in what type of game you are playing. I see that I minraise in turbos and I 3x in a regular tournament event because you can chip off earlier in a turbo.

SJOHN11
Guest
Guests
5
February 28, 2012 - 4:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Look forward to hearing ur thoughts Danny. swhitelex — ye if i was going to minraise from the beginning it would b in turbos — also in lower stakes MTTs you min raise in ep and u will prob get about 5 callers, all of a sudden ur AA is not looking so gd anymore on most flops — so am interested to hear whether we should adjust our strategy in terms of the type of game and stake level.

Julius187
Guest
Guests
6
February 28, 2012 - 5:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I guess another question is effective stack depth. In a tournament such as the WSOP circuit, you are given 10,000 or 12,000 starting chips for the smaller buy-in (350/550) events. The blinds start at 25/25 for stacks of 400/480bbs. Min raising or 3xing in this level is really not going to make too much of a difference in calling ranges IMO, if anything, you can get the blinds to call any two cards with a min raise. Even at level 2, 25/50, a starting stack is still 200/240 blinds deep, so I feel the advantage in this spot goes to min raising so when you get 5 callers, the pot is smaller and you can lose less chips when your aces get cracked. The disadvantage of course is you have also built a smaller pot to win when you do hold.. Hence the dilemma at hand 🙂

I3betshove
Guest
Guests
7
February 28, 2012 - 9:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

SJOHN11 said:

Look forward to hearing ur thoughts Danny. swhitelex — ye if i was going to minraise from the beginning it would b in turbos — also in lower stakes MTTs you min raise in ep and u will prob get about 5 callers, all of a sudden ur AA is not looking so gd anymore on most flops — so am interested to hear whether we should adjust our strategy in terms of the type of game and stake level.

As a micro/low stakes grinder I think this is absolutely true! A min raise even in the 50-150bb period is generally begging for multiple flats. At these stakes, $1-5 buyins, I see 50-100 bb open shoves oop all the time???

Probably wrong, but I will 4x open in the very early stages with big hands hoping for a spaz, then drop to 3x, then 2.5x, then even very deep I will 2.1-2.2x.

At the small stakes, I think most players see a min raise and think “oh min bet, he is weak or scared, I’m calling or raising”. Too many call stations at micro stakes.

Just my humble, yet savant-like opinion! wink

JayCarr
Guest
Guests
8
February 29, 2012 - 6:43 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

At the micro stakes it is a different game IMO… I agree you are going to get called alot more by the bottom of range of these players. Micro MTT is a high variance spot from hand 1, this is where grinding a few nights a week in micro cash full ring will help with these types of fields…Even though cash and tourney trail are two seperate worlds, IMO you need that post flop experience in these low buy in tourneys, that part of your game is worked on in cash games.

I came to the realization that most MTT players or up and coming MTT players are not the greatest post flop, they might think they can out play their opponents PF but without some good solid practice full ring, MTT players edge comes from Pre with putting pressure. Of course I speak of players that are just now really getting into overdrive MTT skill building, unlike the pros on TPE or other training sites they are more than comfortable playing post flop. There is no doubt working on post flop strategy is ongoing for any level of the game, but there are a lot more sticky spots in micro buy ins because of the “Lets gamble its only $3” mentality.

This just a added thought to the thread, I am still a student of the game, which most pokers players are. The day we stop learning is the day we need to stop playing. Happy grinding and keep posting we all get better by sharing our strategy…

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
36 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1