View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Online Poker VS. Live Poker
the_dude
Guest
Guests
1
October 17, 2010 - 5:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Okay.  So here it is.  The mother of all poker discussions; discussed in home games all the way to the big boys on ESPN.

What are the differences between online poker and live poker????

Well, before I begin, let me tell you my poker backround first.  I'm 22 now and started playing when I was about 17 (after seeing on TV the whole poker boom shit or whatever you wanna call it)  I started playing with friends in school and in home games for a few months before finally checking out the underground poker clubs in Queens, New York.  Whatever impressions or stories you have heard from the “underground clubs” is probably all TRUE.  I mean, I wasn't playing at places like KGB's in “Rounders,” BUT these places were/are pretty ****ing shady.  Gotta look over your shoulder walking to your car after a winning session.  They're tons of “characters” if that's the word. I wouldn't show them any bluffs if I were you….I DON'T! ANYWAY-

 

So I pretty much played on and off at these clubs for about 3 years.  I sort of became obsessed, as do most people who start playing playing poker.  Losing sleep thinking about hands. “Should I have checked there, should I have folded, should I have raised.”  All that sort of shit. (By the way, if you are not thinking about the game when NOT playing the game, such as going over hands in your head, discussing it with fellow poker friends, ect…I HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU START.  Thinking about the game and learning from your mistakes (cause it's IMPOSSIBLE to NOT make mistakes while playing) is the best way to improve your game.  Away from the table, I would always watch WSOP on ESPN.  It's simple, if you want to be great, you must study the one's who are great and try to pick up the good things they do and add it to your game.  (This is how I feel also about TPE.  All the pro's {panda, dog, hag, wein} are very sucessful poker pokers.  So watch and ya might learn a thing or two!)  ANYWAY-

 

The 3 years I played I eventually became a winning player.  I wasn't winnings massive amounts of money, but you know, upper hundreds, lower thousands.  It was enough for me at the time.  Afterall, I was really only playing 1/2 blinds and occasionally 2/5 and some small tournies where 1st place would only be about 1k-ish or so.  Because I was playing live poker, my physical reading ability or “seeing tells” and just overall presence and “feel” for the table was getting better day by day.  AND THEN ONE DAY, I DEPOSIT MONEY ON ONLINE POKER….

 

Now, I assume most of you guys have played online FIRST BEFORE playing live.  (and I don't mean like playing a couple home games with your friends first…I'm talking about putting in serious volume into poker)  So I believe most of you haven't played live for 3 years before NEVER being in an online game like I have.  Let me tell you this right now, the transition from live poker to online poker was a NIGHTMARE for me.  I, just like many other people I know, used the phrases, “**** online,”  “this shit is rigged” <lets just ignore and save the whole UB scam for another topic..haha>..It was extremely frustrating to me.  I lost, lost, and lost and couldn't figure out why.  I was a winning player live, why couldn't I win playing online?  It's the same game, isn't it?  Yes, it is, but not exactly.  To be perfectly honest, (and this took me a long time to finally realize) the AVERAGE online player is better than the AVERAGE live player.  They get 3x the amount of hand experience per session! It's just simple logic, the more hands you see and learn from in a shorter amount of time, the faster you're going to improve your game. So it wasn't that I was a bad poker player,  I just simply was getting outplayed.  I've been playing online for the past 2 years now, looking back at my game 2 years ago, it's embarrassing to even think of how bad I played.  Online has sharepened my fundamentals (bet sizing, hand strength, position) greatly.  I laugh to myself in my head as I play live today just looking at how many fundamental mistakes live players make (not saying online players don't…beause obviously there's bad players EVERYWHERE)  I've only got about 5k in profits from MTT”S but I am fine with that because I've seen how far I've come and I know the results are going to start showing (hopefully soon!)  Now, let me share with you my view on the differences between live and online poker—

(sorry if I went on about me a little too much but I wanted to share with you my backround on both live and online first before I explained the differences)

 

Live Poker:

1.) Tells are NOT overrated! 

I can't even begin to explain to you how many live tells you can pick up on people.  And it's not even the obvious ones like “the quick glance at the chips” meaning strength or “acting strong” meaning bluffing or the “acting weak” meaning strength.  You just gotta look at everyone sitting down at the very beginning of a tournament and analyze them as a PERSON first.  Listen to the things they say, their body movements, the way they stack their chips (I've learned the messy chip piles usually mean they are clueless…unless they are giving off the false tell and hustling you…haha)  But seriously, all you gotta do is just observe them as a person first.  Ask yourself some more questions: “is he a nice guy” (generally nice guys are capable of folding and don't like to take risks and will submit to pressure) “does he look tough/cocky” (generally this type of person will not fold to you too easily)  Take me personally for example, I'm 22 and I look 22.  Do I actually expect that some big tough dude is gonna let me get away will bluffs?! NO! I DON'T!  So I won't do it as often because I know in their heads they do not like to get pushed around, ESPECIALLY by some young “punk” like me.  I can't stress enough how much personality plays into poker.  Poker is a game of incomplete information.  With online poker, there is LESS information available.  With live poker, there is MORE information available to you.  So when you sit down at a live table, PAY ATTENTION TO THE PLAYERS.  You will be amazed of how much information you can get within the first few hands from the players.  This will definitely help you with your decision making.

 

2.) Consistency of your image.

When playing at a live table, it is extremely important whatever it is that you're doing: keep it the same!  Now, what do I mean by this:

a.) if you say “check” when checking.  THEN ALWAYS SAY CHECK!  If you tap the table once when checking.  THEN ALWAYS TAP IT ONCE!  DO NOT EVER EVER EVER say “check” one hand, and then “tap with your index finger twice” another hand, and then “knock 4 times with your fist another hand” !!!

YOU MUST KEEP EVERYTHING CONSISTENT!  You might be unconsiously unaware of these tells when you're either bluffing or have a hand.  SOMEONE observant could very easily pick up on this and use it against you!  Personally, I tap with my left hand TWICE.  So decide on something that is comfortable for you, and STICK WITH IT! ALWAYS!  This same rule applies for betting.  Do you announce your bets? (obviously you must if you throw one chip in or else its just a call) Or do you just stick it out there?  Also, how do you physicially place your chips in the pot?  Do you put it out as one pile; do you split them in half or 3, or 4?; or do you just splash them?  Whatever you choose to do, MAKE SURE YOU DO IT THE SAME FOR EVERY BET!  Again, you might have tells you are not aware of.  Perhaps maybe when you're bluffing, you put in your chips neatly and when you have a hand, you splash them.  It all could be unconscious people.  You could very well easily not be aware of it.  SO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS CONSISTENT!

 

3.) Look at your opponents!

When the hand is dealt out, it is extremely important to look at each and every one of your opponents as they peak at their whole cards.  This goes back to my physical “tell” section.  Perhaps you might pick something up on a player as they look at their cards.  Did they look excited? Nonchalant? ect……*DON'T LOOK AT YOUR CARDS UNTIL IT IS YOUR TURN TO ACT!* This is important for two reasons. A.) Because like I said, you should be looking at your opponent's reactions to their cards, B.) Let's say you have AA, you might give off some kind of tell of excitement as the action comes your way; someone might pick up on that.  And lastly, if you are involved in a hand, and the action is on your opponenets first, LOOK AT HIM/HER BEFORE YOU EVEN LOOK AT THE FLOP!  Again, you might pick up something on his reaction to the flop.  Oh, and one more thing guys regarding this section.  Try to memorize BOTH your cards before the flop comes out.  I can't tell you how many times I see at a table where let's say 3 diamonds come on the flop, and every ****ing player who's in the hand checks to see if they have a diamond or not.  It's absolutely ridiculous and another easy way to give off a tell and information to someone.  JUST MEMORIZE YOUR CARDS!  IT'S JUST 2 CARDS! (omaha is a little bit more difficult, i know…but for hold'em, it isnt that hard)  What I do is: I look at my cards, raise/call or whatever, then right before the flop comes out, take one last peak at them to lock it into my brain.

 

4.) Timing

Okay, this could be one of the most important things of live poker.  Some players don't have physical tells, BUT they have TIMING tells.  Some players might insta-check when they have nothing, or insta-bet when they have something.  Again, this is something you have to look for in your opponenets.  LOTS OF PLAYERS have time tells and its your duty to hopefully figure them out early enough to exploit your opponents.  As I said before, you could have some unconsious timing tells yourself.  Perhaps when you flop huge, you snap check.  What I do to solve this problem is TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME FOR EVERY DECISION!  I reccomend 5-10 seconds before either checking/betting.  This way, no one can figure out any information from you by how long you take.  Obviously if you have a tough decision, take longer.  The only explanation I'll accept for snap checking is if 5 players limp into the pot, and you have the 7 2 off, and the flop comes a k q and you know you're not putting a penny in that pot, then go ahead, scream check as loud as you ****ing want.  But other than that, keep your timing consistent!

 

Online Poker:

1.) Tells online

Now, obviously there are more “tells” available live than online, BUT out of my 2 years of experience online, I found some tells as well.  Okay, now bare with me when I say this first one.  THIS DOES NOT ALWAYS APPLY…IN FACT…MAYBE NOT EVEN 50% OF THE TIME…but atleast from MY experiences, I have seen this.  Let's say you open a pot and 1 person out of position flats you.  When the flop hits, they snap check.  Again, from MY experiences, more times than not, it means they have hit some piece of the flop…AGAIN DO NOT BASE YOUR DECISIONS OFF THIS…I just decided to mention this for something to just LOOK out after.  And if you do get to see their hand and they DID hit that flop.  MAKE A NOTE of that on that player.  That can be a HUGE tell to exploit in later hands or if you so happen to meet with that person in another tourney.  One way to avoid this problem yourself is to do the same thing I told you to do while playing live.  MAKE ALL YOUR DECISIONS THE SAME TIME!  Personally, I either bet/check/raise/shove 15 seconds and over.  I NEVER make any decisions less than 15 seconds.  This way, my opponents can never pick up any sort of time tell on me. 

Another online tell that I have picked up is talking in the chat during a hand.  Now again, THIS DOES NOT ALWAYS APPLY, but from my experiences, when a player decides to talk during a hand, (lets say he bets the river and you're tanking thinking to call or not) it generally means they are strong.  The only logical explanation I can give for this is since acting comfortable is “generally” a sign of weakness, they are giving off a FALSE TELL trying to represent weakness when they are actually strong.  AGAIN, this is just from my experiences.  Some people type when they are bluffing, some type shit with the nuts.  Either way, if you eventually and hopefully see their hand while doing something STUPID LIKE THIS, (Because that's what it is: stupid! I HIGHLY RECCOMMEND NEVER TYPING DURING A HAND OR TALKING DURING A HAND IN LIVE POKER) take a note of it, or if it's live poker, make a mental note of it in your head.  The whole talking during the hands thing; save that shit from home games with your friends getting drunk and high.  There is no room for it when you're seriously competing to win.  UNLESS you've mastered it and found a way (reverse pyschology and double reverse pyschology) to get others to talk and use it to your advantage like someone like Daniel Negreanu has, JUST DON'T DO IT.  All you're doing is giving away important information.  A smart player will figure you out sooner or later.

Another online tell I've noticed is when someone puts you all in BUT leaves you with just one chip left over if you call.  Now, again, from my experiences, this is a sign of a real hand and is sort of making a joke about it to leave you with 1 chip when you call.  However, I have seen players do this at a high MTT buyin when they were bluffing.  So it can be a false tell as well.  But from my experiences, my times than not, it has been a sign that your opponent has a strong hand.  Just keep an eye out for those stupid things people do.

 

Poker Stereotypes: Live and Online

Okay, let me start off by saying this: I am NOT racist, sexist, or prejudice in any way whatsoever.  BUT it is important to realize, whether we like it or not, there are stereotypes in poker.  Here is basically my rule when first encountering players during a live game.  Stick to the stereostypes first UNTIL the moment you realize they do or do not fit that sterotype.

 

The Sterotypes: Again people, not racist, sexist, or prejudice.  And I did not create these sterotypes…

Women: Tight players, can be pushed around.

Asian descent: Aggressive, take a more mathematical approach to the game, play lots of draws

Older people (50's + ): tight but stubborn; will be in the hand till death.

Younger people: (20's) must assume they have knowledge of the game giving the fact poker blew up during their (my..haha) “i can take over the world/i'm invincible” stupid mentality age generation

 

So, those are the main ones I believe to be.  I'm sure there's more, but these are the most important I think.  Now, like I've said, when sitting down at a table, I reccomend sticking with these sterotypes of those people until you are proven wrong.  Examples:

A.) If you notice a woman 3 bet squeeze with 8 6 of diamonds, then you can kiss that tight image sterotype goodbye.

B.) If you notice an asian person hasn't raised a pot in 2 orbits, then kiss that aggressive sterotype goodbye.

C.) If you notice an older man raising 4 hands an orbit, then you can kiss that rock image goodbye.

D.) If you notice a kid in his/her 20's getting pushed around by the table, then you can kiss that confidence image goodbye.

 

As far as online is concerned, always draw your mouse cursor over your oppenents name.  See where he/she is from.  Everyone knows this one.  The nothern Europeans tend to be aggressive…haha…Well, if he/she is not playing aggressive, then kiss that sterotype goodbye also!

 

It's that simple people. Just take the sterotypes all into consideration until they show you something different…

 

Well, I hope these things have helped.  Although I play online mostly now, I still consider myself a live player because that's where I feel I have a bigger edge.  Make sure you do the live things I've shared with you! Especially with the timing with bets/checks.  I can't stress how important that is.  The good players will pick up and exploit you if you're sloppy with these kind of things. 

Playing live poker can be intimidating.  I'm not gonna lie, there were times where some dudes just pyschologically got in my head and affected my decision making.  Just whatever you do, DONT MAKE POKER PERSONAL! Don't go after one person, and don't purposely try and out play them.  It's a losing stratedgy.  Believe me, I've been through it.  If you're not comfortable playing live, and you feel you have a bigger edge hiding behind your computer in your boxers eating ice cream, then just DONT PLAY LIVE….It's that simple.  If you're shipping online, then **** live.  Money is money.  Doesn't matter where it's coming from.  Who gives a shit about the notoriety and what not.  You have to be comfortable to win.  To be honest, I just like playing live better because I like the social aspect of it.  I get pretty bored playing online honestly.  But hey, that's just me.

 

Anyway guys, I hope you've liked the post and I hope it helps your game out in some way.  It's the little things that seperate an average poker player from a consistent winning poker player.

 

Special thanks to panda, dog, wein, and hag.  Your videos have helped my game out a lot.

(And the new TPE pro's too!  Haven't looked much yet into your videos but I definitely will…)

 

Cheers guys

-james “the dude”

 


Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
16 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1