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November 4, 2013
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Good morning,
Here is a hand from midgame in a $5 turbo knockout tournament. It wasn't a huge hand but I wonder if I'm playing this situation correctly.
UTG limper was playing VPIP 20, PFR 6, Limp 13, 3bet 0, Steal 17 and I had played with him before
Only had about 30-40 hands on the BB at the time, but he was playing VPIP 30, PFR 17, 3bet 0, Steal 40, Fold to steal 80, resteal 0
Merge Network $150 Gtd – [Turbo, Knockout] No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t300.00/t600.00 Blinds + t60.00 – 6 players – View hand 2362533
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Akwild (MP): BB = 3.2, t1946
DavidsOldLady (CO): BB = 19.9, t11924
m1LKm0N3y (BTN): BB = 21.6, t12940
Hero (SB): BB = 28.6, t17132
BrewCrew1978 (BB): BB = 22.8, t13698
DougElliott (UTG): BB = 11.0, t6620
Pre Flop: (t1260) Hero is SB with J
T
DougElliott calls t600, 3 folds, Hero calls t300, BrewCrew1978 checks
Flop: (t2160) 2
5 A
(3 players)
Hero checks, BrewCrew1978 bets t800.00, DougElliott folds, Hero folds
TJs is a great flopping hand and I wanted to keep the pot small. But out of position and unsure of what the BB will do, I can see the danger. It does look like neither villain does much 3betting, but I don't want to get into a huge pot with them anyway and I don't think it would be all too easy to take this down preflop.
So can I simply fill in the rest of the blind and hope to flop a monster? I would give up on flops of just top pair.
Thank you much 🙂
March 26, 2013
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Completing in the SB here looks absolutely fine. The limper looks like he does so with plenty of his range so no issues with expecting to be up against a big hand here if you do flop something decent. It is a very good spot to see a cheap flop and fold if the BB raises.
If you do flop some kind of good draw or top pair here then I think you can just lead and see what happens. The BB has shown no interest in the hand preflop so likely has a weak holding and the only concern normally might be the guy limping holding a huge pair but that concern is diminished looking at his stats.
November 22, 2013
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Why not? I think a call here is standard. I don't think you always have to do what is standard, but I don't see any possible reason that you should fold here given the size of the pot, and that all you have to do is complete.
November 4, 2013
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Folding here is by far the worst option of the 3. I like calling the best, because you don't want to bloat a pot OOP with a raise. Really, you have to ask yourself what kind of hands does villain 1 limp with? Normally, I'm finding it to be small pairs, Ax with a weak kicker. Yes, you get the occasional player who limps huge pairs in a trapping play, but they also cry the loudest when you smash a flop and felt them.
As played, perfectly fine. If you had flopped top pair, i wouldn't be just giving up. I would more likely just check call and hope it stays cheap. If the betting gets outrageous(think 60%+ each street) then you can fold. If you are planning on just giving up when you hit though, why are you calling preflop? You can't be scared of monsters in the closet all the time.
November 18, 2013
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as played fine, easy call pre, easy fold post.
I wouldnt be giving up if I flopped TP, I've noticed that against passive limpers you can get away with taking control of the pot and leading out for around 1/3 the pot. If turn hits your hand you can go for more value it it doesnt just stay in control of the pot and keep it small. Its also easier to get away with blocker bets with these passive types of players. I wouldnt be betting any flop I didnt have a piece of, these players cannot find the fold button and will often call down three streets with third pair no kicker or a busted straight with one pair. With a stack of 11 BB its possible he's slow playing a monster like AA, KK, QQ, AK but I doubt it. I think this guy is likely just playing pretty cards excluding his obv raising hands and trying to see flops. If he catches a piece never folding.
November 4, 2013
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Flounder and OneTime, this is great stuff to hear. Some of these ideas are ones that I've wondered about but couldn't confirm for myself as being worthwhile/profitable or not. I want to clarify that I didn't mean I would give up entirely on a top pair board in all situations (although I realize that's what I said). But I probably do let go of the top pair boards too often.
I will experiment with this.
September 29, 2012
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There is one option no one has even mentioned yet. The pot has 1860 with effective stacks of 13.5k, you can shove here pretty profitably. The UTG player is 20/6 open limping from essentially MP, so we have to assume 77+, AJ, and KQ are pretty much not in his limp range. That leaves a whole bunch of small pairs, weak aces and some broadway hands in his range. How many of those can call your shove? Especially, if it seems he is playing a tight passive game. He's folding 55, A9, and KJ hands here almost 100% of the time.
TPE Pro
August 6, 2013
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Completing SB isn't a bad play for sure, but if the limper is a weaker player as your Hud stats shows (Loose/passive), we could even raise with this hand.
Some good factors with raising :
- We would avoid playing this hand out of position against two players.
- Possibility to take down the pot preflop.
You didn't told us his folding to cbet %, if he fold a lot, I would prefer to take preflop raising/cbet flop line.
Gl 😉
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November 4, 2013
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thanks jjpregler and merfinis.
I like both of these ideas. jjp, I didn't pay enough attention to the fact that the remaining stacks in the hand made the situation 22BB effective. This is something for me to think about.
Merfinis, his fold to Cbet% was 80% and his call Cbet% was 20. Seems like you might suggest a raising and Cbetting line. This is also good food for thought. Would you Cbet on almost any board or would you without the Cbet on certain very treacherous boards?
In general I am hearing that this hand can reasonably be played multiple ways. In a way that makes it easier, but in a way it also makes it harder. Harder if we are trying to figure out the absolute best way to play the hand. But it's good to know that we can have confidence in a few different lines, perhaps choosing the one that best suits us as poker players.
November 22, 2013
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derSchwartz said:
In general I am hearing that this hand can reasonably be played multiple ways. In a way that makes it easier, but in a way it also makes it harder. Harder if we are trying to figure out the absolute best way to play the hand. But it's good to know that we can have confidence in a few different lines, perhaps choosing the one that best suits us as poker players.
For me, I like seeing cheap flops with strong suited connectors. But raising/cbetting is a lot more proactive and may yield a good result. It all depends on game flow. If I have been raising a lot (which is almost always the case for me), raising preflop may inspire them to jam, causing me to fold. I like to vary my lines a little and this is a perfect hand to do it in-hoping to flop a monster, but losing the minimum when I miss.
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