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Never limping! Right?
EstoEsPenarol
Lighting Money On Fire
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June 28, 2014 - 11:16 am
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Hey there,

I open this thread to discuss something that’s been in my mind for a while.

I consider myself that you should NEVER EVER open limp. If I have a hand Id like to play and its folded to me Ill minraise it or fold it, never limp, cuz this feels weak and exploitable.

Nevertheless, BvB if the BB is quite aggro and I know he’s not folding, I might consider to limp in from time to time to reduce variance and avoid playing a pumped up pot OOP.

Nevertheless, I see some somewhat good players open limp for different reasons.
Yesterday, I was playing live and there was a respectable player that limped UTG AKo. Someone raised and he shoved it. When asked why he limped UTG he said that he knew that given the table dynamics someone was raising and he did that to extract more value and a couple bets.
I can understand this line, but the think I dislike is that to make this profitable you have to balance your range and limp some weak/middle strenght hands, because if you dont any attentive reg will notice that when you limp from early position you’re looking for a raise in order to get it in, and as I stated, there’s nothing I hate more than open limping middle strenght hands.

Id love to hear some thoughts of the coaches from here, I think they can throw in some value information on this issue.

Thanks in advance!

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Liverpool015
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June 30, 2014 - 6:47 pm
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I think about 6 months ago i was conformed to the never limping mindset. limping was fishy etc But more recently i have started to limp buttons/sbs when i have a agressive player in the blinds. This being that i especially in sb i dont want to bloat a pot oop when i know he will be playing back at me alot. Also I think some players dont know how to play in a limped pot.

Another strategy i have started doing in (late game stages) is to limp bvb and bet any flop. I find it works pretty well but again you need to find out how competent the BB is in terms of playing bvb. Peoples hand reading seems super bad in BVB pots.

Further to this, i do often limp in EP in my local cash game because it is incredibly crazy. I dont even think i need a balanced range here because people just dont take notice.

CCuster 911
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July 2, 2014 - 6:50 pm
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You can get away with a lot o things live you cant online.  Due to tracking software/HUDs, as well as the vast amount of hands you can play, you can get these reads better.

 

In live play you can get away with a lot of things like throwing in random limps with unbalanced ranges(in general you can have unbalanced ranges in a lot of spots that dont come up all the time).

 

Limping the button is something you see froma lot of great players.  USC phildo I think started that trend in like 09 or something.

 

I remember skyping with Marc Alioto about this in like 2011 or so.  It is definitely something that I think can be good at some dynamics, and mediocre regs to bad players(who are thinking players but just horrible) are really bad at adjusting to things like that if you randomly switch up or throw it in there.

 

Ranges are so hard to go over and will depend on the spot.  Post an example spot with reads and blank out your hand and I will give you some ideas of limping ranges that can work.

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

markconkle
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July 3, 2014 - 9:57 am
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The primary error in OP's post is here:

 

“to make this profitable you have to balance your range and limp some weak/middle strenght hands”

 

When you are making an adjustment due to table dynamics, you are deliberately playing in an UNBALANCED, EXPLOITATIVE way.  

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
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September 4, 2014 - 4:45 pm
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After discussing this with a few people, I have started to add limping the small blind to my game as an adjustment. If the player in the big blind is particularly weak and gives me a lot of folds preflop or on all flops they miss, I will continue to raise a very wide range, simply because I'll be picking the pot up. If they have shown to play back or get annoyingly sticky such that double or triple barrels are required more often, I'll throw in limps with scattered parts of my range. It's uncommon that I have had many bvb spots so that enough of my whole range is exposed, but I'll like limp with some part of my range and then limp a monster and move around like that, going back and forth. I haven't done enough limping to see it's affect on my game, really either. It just sounds good in practice, and a lot of people whose game I admire have suggested it. I think it comes down to table and gameflow. I play on bovada, so there's a lot less paying attention going on and you can get away with weird stuff.

 

The last situation I can think of with a lot of blind vs blind play was late of day1 of a $350 800k prizepool tournament. Multiple flights still, but no one's punting their stack every single hand this late in the flight like they would in the beginning. I had been very much in charge of my table. I got the best of every one at my table in all the big pots, and most were afraid of me. Because of this, the big blind just routinely folded to me. I don't know if this was because he had a bad distribution of hands and never wanted to come back at me with absolute garbage, or if he was actually folding middling postflop hands, but food for thought.

JD
Grinding Micros
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September 5, 2014 - 11:46 am
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I'm a member of Limpers Anonymous.  But I usually have a good reason (the term 'good' is debatable here).  If someone is going to predictably raise your limp with a wide (weak) range why wouldn't you want to take advantage of that.  Taking a limp-call, check-min-raise line BvB seems particularly good at inducing a spazz reflex.  There are other situations with bubble and final table ICM pay jump dynamics.  If I have a hand that I don't want to fold, but I know I'll get flatted and I'll have to either cbet give up or not cbet give up on a ton of flops then I'll just limp.  Situations are so dynamic dependent (stack size, position, opponents, pay jumps, anything else you could possibly think of) that it's hard to even give an example.  I usually don't worry about balance in these spots too much since I'm on Bovada.  But if I don't know how much I'd change on other sites.  I mean I would take advantage of someone's over aggressiveness till they adjusted (reg or not), and these bubble and final table ICM spots come up so rarely it would be hard to build up a dynamic with any one player in these spots.

MovesLikeDarvin

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September 8, 2014 - 10:59 am
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1. overlimping has become a big part of my game, especially in situations like the one provided.

 

markconkle said:

The primary error in OP's post is here:

 

“to make this profitable you have to balance your range and limp some weak/middle strenght hands”

 

When you are making an adjustment due to table dynamics, you are deliberately playing in an UNBALANCED, EXPLOITATIVE way.  

2. ^mark beat me to it.

3. the days of the Phil Gordon “never open with anything other than a raise” mentality are mostly dead. players are dealing with preflop aggression better than they used to. in general, raising is superior in many respects to limping in lots of situations, but in a minority of cases where raising may lead to unfavorable outcomes, limping is still better than folding. 

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