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Mtt selection
Riar
Midstakes Master
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June 18, 2014 - 7:58 am
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I had this question for a while regarding mtts: Should we play in tournaments that give less than 20by to first price ?

I know it might seem a stupid question but on the site i play (ps.it), the guaranteeed pricepools of some small tournaments have been lowered now that is summer time, so i was uncertain wheter i should keep playing or not some of these tourneys: for example should i play a 30e that gives 400ish to 1st ? or a 50e that gives 700-750ish (etc etc) ?

note that all this tourneis have small, soft fields (from 40 to max70 ppl) and there is no overlay … the ratio reg/fish varies it can go from 30/70, 50/50 or even 70/30 sometimes, but most of those regs are regtards so i'm not particularly scard by the field toughness, i just dont know if it's wise to spend 50e to win 700ish in the best case scenario…

Foucault

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June 18, 2014 - 9:04 am
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You know, some people play tournaments with only nine players, where first place is worth just 4.5 buyins. Their theoretical ROI is usually lower than it would be in an MTT, as is their variance.

markconkle
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June 18, 2014 - 12:16 pm
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Some people even play tourneys with 2 people, where the maximum win is less than 2 times the buyin.

Foucault

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June 18, 2014 - 1:23 pm
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markconkle said:

Some people even play tourneys with 2 people, where the maximum win is less than 2 times the buyin.

This strains the imagination. Please provide proof. wink

Riar
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June 19, 2014 - 7:12 am
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So when registring in a tourney the only i should  consider is the field's toughnessas ? and long as I think the field is not too tough to play in i should not give much attention to prizepool /payouts…

 

I assume this changes for live tourney right ? Cause i assume that even if the smaller the tourney smaller the variance, sometimes is just not worth playing in it due to the extra expenses that live poker requires am i wrong again ?

derSchwartz
Sunday Major
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June 19, 2014 - 10:27 am
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Some poker places are a rip off .. ie. $10 rake for a $20 tournament with like 25 people (which I won't play).  However, I suspect these places are mostly bars running the small stakes games.  I doubt you guys are often seeing $150 rake for a $300 game.

Foucault

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June 19, 2014 - 11:46 am
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Your ROI goes up for every player in the tournament who is less good than you, and it goes down for every player who is better than you. This is why playing HU with a tough player is a bad idea, but you might play the same tournament if one or more weak players registered as well. The value of your skill advantage (or disadvantage) is a function of the blind and payout structures.

Your ROI is also a function of the rake, and you can basically treat travel expenses as extra rake, so you're right that it usually doesn't make sense to travel for small buy-in events. I usually only travel for tournaments when I expect to get other benefits from the trip as well, such as getting to see friends or travel in an interesting place. I think American pros who fly to Europe to sit in a casino for a week and then fly home are making a pretty big mistake.

Variance is a function of field size. I don't have an exact formula to give you, but you'll be bankrolled for a 100-person $200 MTT well before you are bankrolled for the Sunday Million.

If you're trying to make optimal game selection decisions, you need to take all of this stuff into account. Among other things, you can reduce the swinginess of your bankroll by playing a mix of small- and large-field events as opposed to just focusing on tournaments with huge first prizes and correspondingly huge fields, even if your ROI is higher in the latter.

Riar
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June 20, 2014 - 8:51 am
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Now I understand the mistake i was making, i was taking all my decisions based on trying on maximinsing my ROI (which per se is not a mistake) but in doing so I was not taking variance into account…

Thanks (again) Andrew for the high quality work you are doing in the forum…

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