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September 20, 2012
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Okay, so this is part of the network's mini leaderboard running during the year. Most players are pretty tight. It seems limp pre and pot bet on TP good kicker is pretty widespread and acceptable among quite a few. I generally don't see people value betting thin. Over shoves and pot size are 99% nutted.
Buyin for this is about $11,5 and starts with 350BB and 15 min levels. Hand goes:
GTech G2 Game #2009922407: Table (342973022), MiniSteken – 125.00/250.00 – No Limit Hold'em – 21:39:21 – 2013/09/29
Seat 1: rhyd369 (11748.00)
Seat 2: UNKNOWN (0.00)
Seat 3: lax_lekman (5592.00)
Seat 4: SD (6716.00)
Seat 5: ryben (982.00)
Seat 6: Funkemo! (17783.00)
Seat 7: CSampaio (9901.00)
Seat 8: hkHard (15943.00)
Seat 9: Totte86 (12859.00)
Seat 10: jagborn (16475.00)
rhyd369 posts the small blind of 125.00
lax_lekman posts the big blind of 250.00
jagborn is the button
HOLE CARDS
Dealt to hkHard
SD folds
ryben folds
Funkemo! folds
CSampaio folds
hkHard raises 500.00
Totte86 folds
jagborn folds
rhyd369 folds
lax_lekman calls 250.00
FLOP:
lax_lekman checks
hkHard bets 575.00
lax_lekman calls 575.00
TURN:
lax_lekman checks
hkHard checks
RIVER:
lax_lekman bets 1137.00
hkHard calls 1137.00
SUMMARY:
Total pot 4549.00 | Rake 0.00
Board:
lax_lekman won (0.00), shows
hkHard won (4549.00), shows
So the question is, should we generally tripple barrel here? Do you fold out worse on turn by barreling the ace?
Also, on river, how do you proceed. (My reaction in game was shove=nuts 99% of times. His half pot bet = trying to get me off middle pairs.) Can we find a shove profitably on the river? Cheers!
June 8, 2012
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i like ur line. we could of bet turn to get value from draws and even Jx but whatever. Im not really looking to build a huge pot here where we will face a difficult river decision when it completes draws and he leads.
wp imo
June 11, 2012
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id say your hand is worth 2 streets of value
and with this board we should normally expect to get action from big hands such as sets or 2pairs and probably big draws.
flop is a clear bet.
Turn is where it gets interesting:
would probably need to run a full flopzilla analysis to see whats best
depending on how many Ax he floated on the flop it might be a check back. Additionally a lot of Axs flush drwas hit the A.
But with all this draws out there i think a bet would be ok to get value from mid pairs and Jx as the A looks like a perfect double barrel card for us.
vs more tricky opponent i like checking back more as they can make your life miserable on such a turn.
River:
no point in shoving we will not get called often enough with worse here
i d say you played it fine
TPE Pro
September 28, 2012
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+1 to forianm
A couple more comments:
Not a fan of river sizing, would go like 950, I think you are disocuraging hmi looking you up with a lot of his bad hands.
To expand on his two street comment though, this can potentially be 3 streets, which means we bet turn. Against stations I def go for 3 streets here, especially because draws dont really give us value on river(unless you think he is a spaz on river). I just dont see many people that ddidnt turn 2 pair, c/ring turn so I dont really see much we are afraid of.
I would do something like this:
550 on flop
750 on turn
650 on river
in this hand on Ace turn, unimproved.(on this river we can still get away with a small river bet imo)
I think we get two streets(750+55) from draws and worse Js(at elast), and 3 streets from a few worse Js, plus msot of his As would bet river an amount around 1k so we only lose 200-300ish more against his hands that beat us, and I think his range is weighted to draws much more than hands that beat us.
For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion
September 20, 2012
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CC: river bet is villain betting into me. If i'd bet out on river I'd prob gone a bit more thin than him…
So, if we double barrel turn and villain check raises we could probably safely fold here? To me this sounds like an awesome move in BB: float river, c/r turn on “good” cards given both have the stacks for it. No?
August 31, 2013
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I don't think you often get three streets of value unless villain is a sick calling station or unless you have a huge dynamic with him.
Flop bet is obviously standard. On the turn I think it really depends of villain:
– Against a calling station/passive player I'm betting the turn as he will continue to call with Jx, 9x and all of his flush/straight draws and I don't expect him to raise us light (+ he is less likely to bluff his missed draw if you check back the turn). I will check back the majority of river (espcially the 7 
which is one of the worst river possible). On good river (2, 3, 4, 5) I can find a thin value bet but I will bet something like 1/3 pot.
– Against a more agressive player I don't mind a bet turn too but my standard is to check back and bluff catch a lot of river.
In general, with no info on villain I think bet flop, bet turn and check river is the best line. You take value of his draw and you avoid a tough decision river if you check back and he pots the river. Even if he has AQ he will probably check the river when you two barrel so you can check back easily.
TPE Pro
September 28, 2012
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Melanocetidae said:
CC: river bet is villain betting into me. If i'd bet out on river I'd prob gone a bit more thin than him…
So, if we double barrel turn and villain check raises we could probably safely fold here? To me this sounds like an awesome move in BB: float river, c/r turn on “good” cards given both have the stacks for it. No?
Ahh my mistake. I think calling river is marginal as played. I probably fold river.
Yes we would be folding the turn if we get c/r. Our calling range though however is relaly wide on turn, this is just the top of our b/f range. We will be calling a lot of good draws, almost all Ax, so our overall range is not getting exploited, and he is not repping much.
If you do feel like you might be vulnerable on turn to light c/r's, this is becuase villain is bluff heavy, and if thats the case I would check turn, assuming he bluffs river a lot.
Hope this clarifies what I meant.
My gameplan overall doesnt change, but I do think river is marginal, as the river completes all but bascially QT/KT type hands, so basically you beat 8s that decided to bluff as well as worse Js, and I dont think he bets this big that often with those(but I do think he calls with those).
For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion
August 15, 2013
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This is a wonderful post because this situation happens so often to me (at least it feels like its happening every time 
).
If i don´t have a read or some stats/ notes that tell me that he is capable of semi-bluff-betting river with second pairs and worst i always find myself folding to these kind of river bets – is this a LEAK??
I mean he could have easily called our flop bet with hands like A9 or Axs and all kinds of stuff (any sc´s)…so to me the A on the turn card is def. in his range…people love def. theier BB with Ax kind of hands (this is what i experienced)…i think our turn check shows him that we prbly don´t have an ace…
the river card is pretty ugly and def. hits his range…so i would fold river!!!
@CC @All: what would you do if the river card was a blank?? Can u find a call here?? Does his bet sizing tell us anything?? Do you think a river shove on a blank is more of a bluff or the NUTS?? what would a shove mean on the actual river card??
I know these are many questions but these will solve many problems at once for me (and prbly some others) and i would really appreciate if you could answer (at least one or two) them 
August 31, 2013
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@kingkong:
In this hand I think the call river is pretty close, I would probably have fold, this is one of the worst river with 8, T, K . In general people doesn't turn second pair in bluff on that river (especially when hero check the Ace on the turn) and are just checking. I really don't know if villain was bluffing or block/ thinvalue betting (I'm pretty sure he doesn't know himself lol) the river. You don't beat a lot of hand river unless KQ and QT so yes it's a marginal call imo with no info.
If the river is something like the 4
i'm probably calling as there is a ton of missdraw in villian range
September 20, 2012
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@CC: yes. Thanx!
@KingKong and to explain a little bit of my reasoning in this particular hand:
I had about 110 hands with villain and he was 26/19/3 so not much to go on there apart from him being generally a more loose player than most on the site. As I said in the first post, on the site play is a little particular. I.e. limp pre and bet pot on flop with TPGK from any position is a quite common play. Also, quite a few people don't seem to understand to get max value from their hands, but they're like “I got top pair and don't wann get sucked out on… I bet pot, that should show them!”. Not saying this villain is like them, but just to give a little background.
Anyways, open pre is pretty standard as said before. Villain has been defending 2/4 in BB so far and 3bet% = 3 so I discount AK+,QQ+. On the flop I bet for value as well as to charge possible draws (hearts and SC) I expected to get check raised from all his trips and monster draws like TQ etc. Also, when betting flop my intention was to pot control turn (as well as evaluate). At the river (worst card) and he leads my thoughts are: flush got there, ace on turn he should've bet then also probably raised pre, if he made flush he should've bet bigger, waaay bigger like shove. River shoves generally seem to be nutted on the site.
I'm not saying that this was an easy call, it was very marginal and with no more advanced reasoning behind than the above and a spur of the moment thing. The main thing that tipped me over to call was the river sizing, yes it was large but not “extreme value” large which led me to think I could actually be good (though not knowing.)
As someone said in a video, don't know who maybe Ben Warrington “showing a bit of stubborness tends to make your opponents not wanna mess to much with you.”
Sry if too long…
June 14, 2013
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I wouldn't check the turn here.
The thing is that a check on the turn gives a good spot to bluff on the river. There are so many rivers you don't want to see The 7 of hearts is one of the worst cards.
I think bigdog said this in one of his SM vids. You're giving villain a chance to steal the pot away from you with whatever hand he has because you're only beating such a narrow range when he bets out on the river.
My move is to bet the turn. This turns my hand into a bluff yes and I'd fold/check any river except if another J comes. You might even make QJ or KQ to fold when betting the turn 😀
Next to bluffing I will also protect my hand because of all the draws.
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