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June 11, 2012
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hey fellows,
missclicked pre to 4BB and ended up HU OOP against one of the best MTT players out there.
so what do you do? i think flop is a good Cbet. he was new at the table and we do not have much history so he does not really know that i missclicked. maybe i am just a fish in his eyes 
(ok i am a fish, really)
so what you do postflop?
Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t6000/t12000 Blinds + t1200 – 9 players – View hand 2255018
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Hero (UTG+1): BB = 64.2, t770149
Ajoin21 (UTG+2): BB = 19.7, t236780
GAN 029 (MP1): BB = 9.8, t118124
ch0ppy (MP2): BB = 29.0, t347704
DHUSTLER15 (CO): BB = 17.0, t204105
C999KP (BTN): BB = 15.9, t190213
reedeemeer (SB): BB = 8.5, t101864
ponaste (BB): BB = 32.0, t384125
pjpocketCY (UTG): BB = 35.9, t430654
Pre Flop: (t28800) Hero is UTG+1 with Q
T
1 fold, Hero raises to t48000, 2 folds, ch0ppy calls t48000, 4 folds
Flop: (t124800) K 4
J
(2 players)
Hero bets t48000, ch0ppy calls t48000
Turn: (t220800) 4 (2 players)
Hero ??? ch0ppy xyz
gonna reveal river once we end there. not sure if we do though.
flop seems standard. what you do on turn? river plans vs different turn lines?
cheers
February 3, 2013
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Haha i hate spots like that,happens soooo often to me.. having openender OOP and doesnt get it on Turn.
I think normally I cbet 30-40% on flop (since u made 4bb preflop) and 30-40% second barrel on turn hoping he wont 3bet me. If he does, …sigh, wp and fold.
Dont like checking the turn, many monster MTT grinders like to call a cbet on such dry flops IP and watch, what villain gonna do on turn. If u check turn, he gonna bet (99% sure). So i prefer to stay the aggressor
June 8, 2012
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I would take a totally different line here than p1kZoR
Your bet on flop looks very weak to me since you open for 4BB pre. I would bet around 68k to confirm your “fish” status. With that bet I dont expect him to fold almost anything from his range.
If he calls, I probably just check/fold turn. It sucks, but he has to have a reasonable hand to continue giving the fact you opened UTG+1 for 4BB and he is MP2.
March 21, 2013
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What's your standard opening utg this late in the tournament with these stacksizes behind?
not sure if I'd like to open QT here utg with 4 stacks in shoving mode vs you. If I'd been active or am new at the tabe I'd fold pre (considering the big stack indicates an active player most of the time).
Considering your 4x pre I don't like your flop sizing really much, basically screams 'unimproved hand'. even making it someting like 52k would already look a lot better, I'd barrel turn ~56K to setup river shove and shove almost all rivers. (x/Fold Q, J)
only hand he might call with on the river is KJ/AA/AK..
February 3, 2013
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Wow im not sure if my pokerworld is so wrong or yours. But this is pretty dry flop. If I would raise 4x with AK,AA,KK etc. pp., i definetely would cbet on this flop like 30-40%, which just screams for “PLEASE CALL ME, I GIVE U NICE ODDS”
I mean, if u have AK here or some other monster, why should u bet 60% of pot and represent a monster? Just doesnt make any sense. 30-40% cbet is more than enough on THIS type of flop
Since the villain only had potsized stack behind on turn, makes it hard to decide what to do on turn. Aggressiv player gonna cbet like 70-100k and shove any river. Carefull nitty player gonna check/fold turn. I would prefer the more aggressive way. After we 4x UTG he will be able to call with at least KQ.
I dont mind shoving the turn. A shove just looks weaker. If u had AK there, u wouldnt shove the turn either. Thats why I prefer to bet like 80k… he already gonna commit himself anyway, if he calls. So for you its the same, as a shove because u wont fold anymore
June 1, 2012
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I would just C/F the 4 is the nut worst card to bluff and we are committed if we bet the turn almost. If we were 100bb deep we could fire turn and river in a spot where it looks like we can never be bluffinga and get Choppy to lay down hands as strong as KQ.
June 26, 2013
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IMO, everything up to the turn seems standard… Minus the misclick, I hate checking the turn here.. He is for sure betting if checked to no matter what he has.. I prefer firing a little less then half pot here.. But if raised giving up.. No wait .. I don’t like that either.. I guess check calling with the intentions of firing every river.. Seems right.. Like previously stated if checked to on the turn he is betting 99%…. Knowing this we could call and lead.. Tuff spot
June 8, 2012
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p1kZoR said:
I mean, if u have AK here or some other monster, why should u bet 60% of pot and represent a monster? Just doesnt make any sense. 30-40% cbet is more than enough on THIS type of flop
If we open for min-raise, I am totally fine with your line. Since we opened for 4x, these type of players just didnt cbet 30-40%. Fishy player likes his hand here and wants to go all-in as soon as possible, so he is betting bigger.
elorean said:
Considering your 4x pre I don't like your flop sizing really much, basically screams 'unimproved hand'.
Well said. This is exactly what goes through my mind here. Unimproved hand.
March 21, 2013
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p1kZoR said:
Wow im not sure if my pokerworld is so wrong or yours.
I don't think your pokerworld is wrong, nor do I think my pokerworld is wrong. OP asked for what would you do in this specific situation considering the hand as played… your answer was 'normally'… which does not apply in this specific situation..
basically your suggestion is precisely my suggestion except that I make turn a little smaller and shove bigger on the river. I don't think QT is in our perceived '4x fishy' range so any 9 would be perceived a blank by ch0ppy on the river and an A might sometimes make him fold..
October 6, 2010
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trying to do anything after this misclick is trying to polish a turd.
i would honestly check call here, and eval turn. i think turning a small preflop mistake into an opportunity to get your punt on can be bad.
June 1, 2012
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Never thought about that. I think a flop C/C would be the most optimal way to play this hand agianst any opponent. We dont mind seeing a free card.
February 3, 2013
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trying to do anything after this misclick is trying to polish a turd.
Agree and totally fine with this line.
I think you can cbet on flop bigger too. If you do so, u have to give up ur hand completely on turn.
Cbet like 70-80k, and check&fold on that turn. My experience is that a bigger cbet (even with fishy 4x utg) doesnt change anything vs. a good player. I like the way bigdog playes, and he had few situations in his videos, where villain just cbet too high on dry flop… And this betsizing made bigdog call the flop with air IP and make a small bet on turn after his villain had checked.
Thats just why i dont like to make fishy cbet on this flop, after made fishy 4x preflop.. Even if we are a fish, an excellent villain wont fold very often on a strange huge cbet on flop
June 11, 2012
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bennymacca said:
trying to do anything after this misclick is trying to polish a turd.
i would honestly check call here, and eval turn. i think turning a small preflop mistake into an opportunity to get your punt on can be bad.
well, completely agree with that. But in the example i actually floped pretty well for my hand
October 6, 2010
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so 49k into 220k? you are getting pretty good odds to call, but you may only have 6 clean outs, its probably pretty close
February 3, 2013
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borderline, i think i would fold even with good odds. Just wasting chips in like 80% of time… I doubt we will bluff he river, so like benny told, we r lookin for only 6 outs. If you go on and call this bet, i would prefer to bet myself the 50k, and not check call turn.
So make a little 2barrel or just give up imo
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