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June 2, 2012
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Very good structured tournament. 1 hour levels. Don't skip any levels, start at 25-50, 25k starting stacks.
Fifth hand of tournament. Completely readless against villain (older Asian fellow).
The hand: I'm MP+2 (25k) and open to 150 with AA. Guy flats right behind me. Asian (25k) on button makes it 425. Folds around to me and I make it 1250. Asian calls. Flop 875 rainbow. I lead 1250, villain almost instantly min-raises to 2500. My first initial instinct was that he had an overpair to the board and wanted to see where he was at. Because of this, I think I'm ahead so do we a) flat to keep worse hands in and pot control or b) 3b to build a pot? I elect to go with a. Turn is Q. Didn't exactly like this card as QQ is definitely in his range here. Having said that, do you guys like to a) donk lead turn, if so how much? or b) check call? I check, asian bets 4k into 7500. I call. River is a 10. I check and asian thinks for awhile and slides out 7500. My question is a) how often are we good here? I'm completely readless on villain and have played my hand rather passively. I'm not sure if villain is capable of turning 66 or 99 into a bluff here but it seems feasible. b) what range of hands are you putting the villain on with this line and c) is KK in his range here? if so can we ever fold to river bet?
Would love feedback on this hand. Get at it TPE!
May 30, 2012
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Im torn, i mean if we 3bet flop its abundantly clear we are never folding but any 10-K is bad for us and 6/4/9 complete random draws and A is probably an action killer.
turn im c/c as played since JJ/1010 check back but call a river bet
river range probably like KK QQ 1010 J10s 910s 88 77 55. i cant think of any hand that his line is good with tho.
like how do you think he percieves your 4bet pre? you pretty much only have a nutted range right?
June 2, 2012
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duggs said:
Im torn, i mean if we 3bet flop its abundantly clear we are never folding but any 10-K is bad for us and 6/4/9 complete random draws and A is probably an action killer.
turn im c/c as played since JJ/1010 check back but call a river bet
river range probably like KK QQ 1010 J10s 910s 88 77 55. i cant think of any hand that his line is good with tho.
like how do you think he percieves your 4bet pre? you pretty much only have a nutted range right?
I failed to mention that there's a chance villain knows who I am since I've won some tournaments around the area. Not sure how he would perceive this information however. I guess it really depends on what level he's thinking on. I would assume he knows my range is pretty nutted here though as I'm not looking to get crazy OOP, during the the first level. Especially when I'm readless. I guess the main question here is that can we call river bet and be right enough of the time for it to be profitable? These questions would be so much easier if it wasn't the 5th hand and we were completely readless. Plus I don't think it helps that I gave the guy the “crazy asian” stereotype. I mean would you play KK this way if you were in villain's spot? I just find it hard to believe we are ahead here, ever. I mean who's putting in 2/3 of their stack on some sort of sick bluff here?
May 30, 2012
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like i dont play deep stacked live events but he def isnt 3betting lie 22-88 here is he? or KQs, J10s. so his pre range is 99+ AJs+ KQs (discounted) AQo on the flop he can raise 99+ i guess but i wouldnt. I just dont know where to find a fold if its not on the flop or turn tbh.
I'd 4bet a bit bigger tbh since he is almost never 3betting to fold this early.
personally i dont have a raising range on that flop at all given preflop action so i find it hard to assign him one and weight it properly
May 30, 2012
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also its such a nothing river because if KK is barreling turn then its firing on that river,
I dont feel that comfortable getting stacks in this deep and with that SPR on the flop, but maybe its better to 3bet/gii.
is b/f too weak? is c/f turn too weak? most if not all of his range should be checking back here that doesnt crush us.
July 5, 2012
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gross hand. without a read the only hands you can feasibly take out of his range are KK and AA with his flat of your 4 bet.
That being said, you are both so deep here, he is in position, and squeezing, so his range obv can include tons of suited connectors, small and medium pairs, Ax suited, KQ suited etc.
Maybe I am too passive post in these deep stacked situations, but even though we have AA, we put ourselves in a super sticky situation here.
I think I would play it like you did. Flat his flop raise, then go into pot control mode.
The best option, however, might be 4 bet flop, then reevaluate. Without a read that this guy is def capable of dumping a bazillion bbs with a one pair hand, or as a bluff here, I think we can def get away post.
4 betting that flop narrows his bluff frequencies imo. This way if he bluff raised AQ,KQ on the flop, then hit the turn on you, he may be thinking he's betting for value, and we're stuck in “no man's land” b/c we're OOP.
As played his hand looks ALOT like QQ. Will be curious to hear results
Side Note: People are rarely bluffing for stacks this early live. If he was, kudos for being a spew tard and getting away with it. Just can't think of too many hands, as played, that we are beating.
June 2, 2012
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I tanked on river for probably two minutes. The Asian guy looked really comfortable which was odd to me. I thought he was maybe turning 44 66 or 99 into a bluff and I thought there was a SLIGHT chance he could have KK here. I ended up calling and he turned up 1010. The fact that I thought he had some mid-pair after he min-raised the flop are you guys 3betting him? In hindsight I don’t like my call at all because I really think if he misses river that he’s just giving up and checking behind. Also I just don’t think villain is putting in 2/3 of his stack here at 25-50 if he isn’t nutted. Ultimately the fact that he was Asian and I gave him the “crazy Asian” stereotype enticed me to call. I wasn’t happy with this thought process and looking back I think it’s a pretty easy fold.
May 30, 2012
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i probably 3bet because alot of his overpairs spite call and call at least a turn bet, plus we get the SPR to such a point that it becomes easier for him to get overpairs in. Plus i dont think we can ever call 3 here and i think if we are going to do that then we should be b/f river instead.
June 2, 2012
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If we 3b click it back to lets say 5250 and he jams for over 20k are we folding then?
July 31, 2012
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JLUDEOBV said:
If we 3b click it back to lets say 5250 and he jams for over 20k are we folding then?
I would fold most of the time if this happened. We're 5 hands into a tournament holding a single pair against an unknown opponent. This early in a tournament, I give the players the benefit of the doubt when they want to build a huge pot. He COULD be bluffing or just playing extremely agressive with KK-TT here, but I think you would run into this situation less than 10% of the time. I don't want to get knocked out of a slow-paced, good-structured tournament 5 hands in when all I have is AA on a 875 flop. If he's willing to 3 bet us preflop, call a 4-bet, min raise us on the flop, and then shove all in over our 3-bet with a bluff…then good for him. I'm not risking my tournament life.
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