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Middle to late stages MTT
slipknot
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January 10, 2011 - 9:43 am
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My first post here, so please go easy sorry for any newbie
mistakes

 

I have played over 6k sngs on Stars and done very well, I’ve
started to play allot more MTTs that’s why I joined this site.

 

I play allot of MTTS from $2 to $15 so small buy INS, my
problem is I seem to be able to play the early stages well and have no problem
building a stack but then let myself down in the middle to late stages I can’t
seem to play that part of the game well at all, I find myself trying too hard
to ISO weak players and donking chips of or playing to tight and blinding down.

 

What kind of advice would experienced guys give to help?

I am trying to watch as many videos as possible, but I find
some of the things shown in higher buy ins are not working in lower buyin MTTs
as I think we have much less FE.

 

I have won 1 MTT on stars with 4.5k runners but it was a
$1.10 MTT and during the middle to late stages I just coolerd my way to chip
leader on the FT AA against QQ, KK vs AK, so kind of a hollow victory, what I
am trying to learn is how to build without getting amazing starting hands.

 

Any feedback would be great thanks.  slip.

tigerspeck
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January 10, 2011 - 12:21 pm
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Although I feel akward answering this question as I am not a big winning player but I have gotten to 7 FT's and made 15 top 100's in the very very short time I have been a member of this site (4 months). My stakes (10-24 with 2 top 40 finishes in the Fifty-FIfty on back to back days)

THE ABOVE IS NOT A BRAG BUT MORE SO THAT YOU HAVE CONTEXT TO WHAT I AM SAYING AS I KNOW TAKING ADVICE FROM PLAYERS WITHOUT A WINNING RECORD CONDUCES EYE ROLLING… (AND I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHY)

 

I live by bigdog's philosophy of being active and going for +EV spots prior to the bubble and after. I have been experimenting with turning up the aggression when I have 30-40bb 50 players or so prior to the bubble.  I call it the new bubble because I feel more and more people understand the dynamics of bubble play.

 

My PLAN of Attack

1. Keeping my raises consistent – 2.2x with above stack

2. Underrstanding what flops to cbet – A high flops, K high flops and always try to take down medium to smallish pots that way also understanding opponents calling ranges which only comes with experience.

3. Delayed c-betting scary turn cards when checked to me by smaller stacks.

4. Paying attention to the “NO FOLD” fish who will call down all streets with AK or middle pair… paying attention when you're not in hand is very very very important. Because these are the guys you'll be spewing into then shaking your head because you can't believe they called you down with middle pair.

5. Paying attention to the “FOLD” play the board “FISH” who'll fold to a cbet.

 

This has helped me accumulate chip prior to and after the bubble recently – which cushions the blow when you lose that flip here and there. Losing flips is apart of the game and having enough chips to sustain those blows when your gettng into the money and into the top 100 places is essential. Iunderstand its obvious but my main thing is I would rather bust out of the money than head into the money with the proverbial chip and a chair.

 

These are just the thoughts of a one time ridiculous FISH who has turned his game around recently….

 

FWIW

 

Gl at the tables

lespaulgman
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January 10, 2011 - 12:47 pm
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I think my thoughts are a lot along the lines of what Tiger outlined. As a tournament is getting to the mid to late stages stack sizes and relative stack sizes become huge and knowing who you can steal from and who you can blow off hands and who isn't going anywhere regardless becomes critical information. Escalating and maintaining an elevated aggression level during these times is key. I find that I function best in environments where I am not necessarily functioning as the table captain, but where my actions get a lot of respect. The biggest part to improve your late game play is to work on being able to quickly and accurately identify specific player types (and very specifically exploitable player types) and then attack them. You are going to get into situations where you lose chips to lost races, the key to success is knowing who you can go back to in order to rebuild.

slipknot
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January 10, 2011 - 12:59 pm
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Thank you for your help i will add all the things to my game and try to watch players a lot more,
It makes complete scense what you’re saying but until you’re
told it’s very frustrating, again thank you.

lespaulgman
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January 10, 2011 - 1:08 pm
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slipknot said:

Thank you for your help i will add all the things to my game and try to watch players a lot more,
It makes complete scense what you’re saying but until you’re
told it’s very frustrating, again thank you.


Welcome to late stage tournament poker. It is so hard to effectively learn here because you have to get there first which is complex. I am sure you will make huge improvement! Looking forward to seeing you at a FT 🙂

kuroshi
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January 10, 2011 - 1:33 pm
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Play position deep and get really good at push/fold methods. Alot of these higher buyin's will have a crunch time 2-3 times in them with 3-4k runners and if you a have a mid size stack it can quickly become a small stack within an hour and only 35-40 hands being played. I aggree with a ton of the above but a lot of that depends on your stack size and opponents stack sizes, like you can't be raising 2.2 with a short-medium stack but instead you should be push/folding till you can either get a bigger stack or bust.

FkCoolers
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January 10, 2011 - 1:35 pm
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Work on playing a 15-30 bb stack since this is where you spend almost your entire mtt life…

If I knew how to do it I'd just tell you here :/

tigerspeck
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January 10, 2011 - 2:05 pm
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Kuroshi is absolutely right – 2.2x at certain blinds levels is just ridiculously bad. It's hard to get everything out in one quick paragraph and its even more annoying to hear the “it depends” line but its true.

 

EXAMPLE

MP1 with 22 and 30bb stack at certain tables I am pitching not even opening because I know I am going to get 3bet by the hyper-aggro button and I can't call profitably to set-mine given our stack sizes.

 

MP1 with 22 and  30bb with a table full of passives I'll min raise and get 6 callers and profitable be able to set-mine

 

The short answer keep on posting hands and more importantly keep on replying to posts even if you don't feel comfortable because what's the worst that could happen someone tells you you're wrong.

 

WHOOPDEE DO!

You're wrong You learn You Improve —> YOU CRUSH!

bizmoan
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January 10, 2011 - 5:01 pm
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slipknot im exactly where you are and feel the same way i FT a couple tourneys but if it werent for big hands and timing spots i dont know if i would of made it…i would wait til my stack dwindled before i stuck it all in with the best hand…im working hard this year to be consistent on being creative, so i thank u for posting this thread..gl and be consistent at working hard and im sure it will pay off for the both of us, cause thats what im trying to do..

slipknot
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January 11, 2011 - 3:58 am
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Thank you guys for all your help this is a very good forum

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