January 18, 2015
Hey guys,
Seeing as I am completing TPEU at a pretty fast rate and hoping to get some good cashes eventually, I just wanted to ask about making deals or chopping at the final table.
I have only really made a couple final tables with a big prize and chopped one, in which I had to call a friend and ask him what the hell I should be asking for, all I can remember is something about chip chop and ICM chop.
Is there a two types of chop you can make and ask the dealer to calculate? Can someone explain the options you have when making a deal?
Thanks a bunch.
January 16, 2014
Chip chops are popular at live tournaments because they are very easy to calculate by hand. Basically you start by taking out the amount that everyone is gaurenteed out of the prize pool. So if 8 players remaining remain and 8th place pays $100, you would take $800 out of the prize pool. Then you get a percentage of the remaining prize money based on how many chips you have. So continuing with the same example if you had 20% of the chips in play you would get $100 plus 20% of the remaining prize pool.
ICM is a complicate mathmatical formula that give you your equity based on how likely you are to get 1st, 2nd, 3rd place ect. Not something that can be done by hand, but there are programs you can download to a smartphone or tablet.
Chip chops favor larger stacks. ICM is probably more fair, and is more disireable for smaller stacks. I used to play a small daily tournament frequently. I didn't want to play hardball and come off as a **** since I'd be playing with the same people soon. I would always quickly agree to a chip chop with a large stack (or sometimes an even chop with short stack), but I wouldn't take anything less than what ICM said my equity was. They say with the high rake these small live daily turbos aren't beatable, but with proper negotiations I think they are. You can get away with murder. Sometimes the chip leader with 10x more chips than you will be like “lets just do a 3 way even chop”.
January 19, 2014
this is for live play only, i rarely play on line
i think it depends, i recommend reading about chopping more deeply in poker books or good articles to fully understand the finacial implications of chopping. as i have improved i am a lot less likely to chop if i think i have a big skill edge..
i also don't chop until some of the lower places bust out, say 9 places paid, i don't even discuss it until 5 or 4 people left..
to me it is super important to finish as many tournaments as i can until the end, i have so much less experience at short handed play I need as much practice as possible negotiating the final stages of a tournament, especially heads up play…..
to accomplish this and allow a chop i will sometimes do a chop that leaves some $$$ in play until the end. like everyone gets $500 but we keep $250 in play for the winner… this allows me to still finish the tournament and there is $$ left that is worth fighting for…
hope this helps
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Honestly, you'll struggle to find too many good books or articles about deal making since it's not really that complex of an issue.
The higher you feel the level of variance is going to be at the final table (i.e. if stacks are short, the structure is fast, or if all the players are of relatively equal skill level), the more inclined you should be to chop. The shorter your stack in comparison to the field, the more you should be inclined toward taking an ICM chop, and if you're a bigger stack a chip chop is going to favour you.
If you feel you have a significant edge at the table, you should be less inclined to chop. If you feel you're outmatched, you should be more inclined, but bear in mind that better players will most likely know they're better than you and turn down your request to chop.
Never be the first person at the final table to request a chop if you can help it, at least not until you get 4-handed or further. This is a little bit of a signal to any stronger players left in the tournament that you're likely to be scared money or playing more passively/tighter. The guy who requests a deal as soon as the final table begins is always the guy who plays like a huge nit the whole time.
I tend not to chop very often, but I'll do it sometimes if it's a particularly big final table or I don't want to have to spend 3 hours playing 120bb deep HU in a $11 freezeout. In general, you're probably not going too far wrong if you only consider chopping when the money at stake is very significant to you. In those cases, if you want a decent deal, you're going to have to be prepared not to get one – if you're the guy begging for a deal the whole time, the chip leader is just going to pound you into the ground.
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