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January 10, 2016
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Hi, non professional here. Forgive me if this is trivial to most. I played a $40 Turbo MTT at my local casino. Top 6 get paid and it’s down to 8 players. I am in 7/8 place with only 5 BB. The blinds are at 3000/6000 no antes. Everyone was playing tight at this point with only one showdown so far. It folds around to the HJ who is in last place and shoves his last 3 BB. CO, Button, and SB fold. I am in BB with 46s.
Is this a clear call and try to win the pot and eliminate a player and chip up? but also run the risk of falling to 8th with only 2BB left if I lose. Or is this a clear fold and preserve my 4BB and wait for a better spot and for other people to get knocked out? I figured he is playing pretty wide with only 3BB but I am still not good at figuring out equity on the fly. So I wasn’t sure where I stood and then decided to fold.
Am I being too passive here? Playing to just cash, or should I have called and try to chip up and play to win? Thanks for any feedback and any study suggestions as far as videos or articles on this subject. Cheers!
July 7, 2012
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You have to love live games, looks like this turned into a classic game of Texas Foldem.
Way before this hand, if everybody is playing this tight, you should have been abusing the hell out of the table while you still had chips.
I’m actually not really sure of the play in the given hand but i would probably call.
January 10, 2016
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Thanks for the advise. Unfortunately I was short most of the final 2 tables. I got no action when I pushed. Are you saying I should be shoving wider when its this tight? and I should have been shoving more to steal?
also, any advise on these no ante tournaments? Its all they offer at my casino. Is there different strategy as far as sizing when opening? There is lot of limping. Thanks
July 7, 2012
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trfins said
Thanks for the advise. Unfortunately I was short most of the final 2 tables. I got no action when I pushed. Are you saying I should be shoving wider when its this tight? and I should have been shoving more to steal?also, any advise on these no ante tournaments? Its all they offer at my casino. Is there different strategy as far as sizing when opening? There is lot of limping. Thanks
You need to study some push / fold scenarios and get a good feel for the ranges of hands you can shove from different positions and different stack sizes. Holdem Resources Calculator or ICMizer are both good software for this, there also mobile apps that will give you a good feel for push / fold ranges as well.
with the lack of antes there is not quite so much pressure on your stack and less incentive to steal, but you still must being trying to pick up the blinds some portion of the time. For example from 12 handed to the hand you raise had you managed to pick up the blinds uncontested 5 more times you would have more or less double the stack you had, thus making this particular decision much easier. Obviously there is the risk of busting, and the potential to double up but it is always a risk / reward balance. The above software will be able to calculate the spots with or without antes so no problem getting a good idea of the difference in ranges in each scenario.
January 10, 2016
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Thank you Turbulence for all that advice. I really appreciate it. I got lots to learn but that’s why I joined this site. Cheers!
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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The lack of antes makes this actually somewhat close. You’re calling 12k to win 27k so you’re getting better than 2-to-1 – you probably only need around 30-31% equity to call. 64s has that much against most moderately wide ranges.
The bubble factor is significant, but since you’re the second-shortest stack and if you fold here you’ll be the shortest on the next hand, I think your chances of cashing are lower if you fold here than they are if you call. It sucks to be in this spot, but I think it’s a call.
If you’re in this spot, the likelihood is that you missed some spots previously – getting down to 5bb in an MTT isn’t something that should really happen to you that often unless you lose a flip. Blinding down to that point usually means you’ve missed a few spots somewhere.
I second the recommendation of doing some work with ICMIZER 2 or (my preferred software) HoldemResources Calculator. It could tell you a concrete answer to this situation.
May 22, 2016
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Just thought I’d jump in to back up Turbulence and Ginger’s point that if the tables were playing as tight as you describe you can exploit this by having a wider shoving range when short – so you can start shoving thinks like reasonably sized suited connectors (I would usually extend my range to include stuff like 910s, 89s, J10s as well as all pocket pairs and decent K’s, Q’s and all A’s) as these also hold decent equity when called, making them profitable when you factor in the fold equity.
As for the situation your hand plays pretty well against a wide shoving range so you should have the required equity to make the call, and the ICM of the situation isn’t as important because you’re so short already that you are going to have to win a pot or two to cash anyway!
February 5, 2015
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Hey ScotFish how come you managed to wangle a hand for the podcast?
Not to de-rail the thread or anything, obviously.
I am not sure what “to wangle” even means, but you wangled it in any case. Congrats!
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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ScotFish said
Just thought I’d jump in to back up Turbulence and Ginger’s point that if the tables were playing as tight as you describe you can exploit this by having a wider shoving range when short – so you can start shoving thinks like reasonably sized suited connectors (I would usually extend my range to include stuff like 910s, 89s, J10s as well as all pocket pairs and decent K’s, Q’s and all A’s) as these also hold decent equity when called, making them profitable when you factor in the fold equity.As for the situation your hand plays pretty well against a wide shoving range so you should have the required equity to make the call, and the ICM of the situation isn’t as important because you’re so short already that you are going to have to win a pot or two to cash anyway!
The bolded above is absolutely true, but I do want to point out that if hands like JTs-98s, all Ax/Kx/most Qx aren’t already in your 5bb shoving range, you’re probably playing much too tight. Expanding your shoving range would mean shoving stuff like J6s or Q2o.
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