120€ tourney ~200 players 10.000 starting stack 45 min level blinds 150-300 ante 25
hero sb ~14000chips AQ
villain bb ~16000chips
info:i'm pretty new to the table, came at the begin of that level ~40mins ago and havent really played a hand so far.(maybe 2 limped pots and raised 1time and folded to a 3b)
info on villain (BB): he's a reg, we sat at the same table a couple times before. he is better then the avg lowbuyin player. he often picks up limped pots and is capable of squeezing and likes to 3b from the blinds if there is a late pos openraise.
before i raise i'm 90% sure he will 3b
preflopaction:
all fold
hero (sb) raise 950
villain (bb) reraises 3800
hero?
what would you do?
With how you described the villain and your stack size, I would 4 bet setting up a go and go if called, but you are also showing the bb that you won't be folding putting him in a spot to 5 bet jam or fold. I feel good about getting a/q in at this point if necessary. I don't like a call oop where you know he is going to be c betting almost everytime and you will be forced to fold more times than not.
if we 4bet how much are we raising to? would it be 6850 if we click it back? tell me if im being dumb. if we are betting this much of our stack surely we are never folding so would a straight 4bet shove be better given what you said about him playing back allot in position or are we losing value shoving, getting him to fold small pairs and weaker aces possibly or are we looking to get him in with those hands, especially the lower pairs while nearly 50bbs deep? is just shoving too spewy? is just taking the extra 4k enough in this spot? i think i would be happy if i shoved and he folded here. but all does depend whether he normally raises this big and if we think hes making a move on us. if im wrong about the 4bet size then ignore me.
This is a tough spot, obv. I think the only clear mistake is flatting. I do not think folding is horrible. You still have a decent stack with which to find better spots. I would probably just shove. 4-betting for less, with the obvious implication that you're calling a shove, may look scarier to the villain, though. I would typically apply maximum pressure, though,and I don't know if that's a leak. First off, he may fold, but it doesn't seem like it with his gynormous 3 bet, but he might. I feel that we're flipping here, mostly. The other times I would say we're 85% dominated, maybe less if he calls with A10 here. Unless he holds AA, which isn't too likely, I think we have around 25% equity against hands that dominate us. I think I would take what I see as a likely flip here against this particular reg villian. If we win, this good player to our left is crippled, and we're stackin'. If we lose, I don't think we can fault ourselves for making a strong play with a hand as strong as AQ heads up, blind vs. blind.
thanx guys for the thoughts.
yes his 3b size was his normal 3bsize.
i made my mind up before the hand that if he 3b i'm going to shove cause i think AQo is clearly ahead of his 3b range. why shove? i had the same thoughts like psellos. when i 4b i'm committed so i prefer shoving.
i was pretty happy how i played the hand but afterwards when i thought about it i was not so sure anymore, maybe i overplayed the hand a lil bit especially in consideration that it is still early in the tourney and we have close to 50bbs so not the time to hurry things, right?!
so maybe i think when i know in advance that the player will 3b me a high percentage of the time it would have been wiser to just limp/call and let him make a normal raise. so we keep the pot smaller and can reevaluate on the flop. disadvantage: we have no possibility take it down preflop and are oop and if we dont hit we just have to give up.:( hmm im still not sure.
ul bada – i think we can all appreciate how frustrating it can be to get into a big pot with a terribly LAG crazy villain only for him to have a big hand and bust us.
just something to ponder,
what level of risk do we want to apply to this MTT, table, specific situation?
I mean if we are almost 100% certain he's going to 3bet us, is it right for us to open raise with the intention to be playing for stacks?
more passive players would probably say no and opt for limp call or some other line
more aggressive players (as most of us should be) would 4bet shove, and just about everyone in this thread agrees
if we have any sort of edge on the table and field should we be flipping or 60:40 or even getting 46BB's in at all pre flop? probably not
alternatively – if the field is tough or the villain is phil ivey (or bigdog) – i'm flipping or taking any +cEV edge i can get my hands on!
all i'm saying is that this is the higher variance route to take and imo probably doesnt suit every players style/situation
nb: im 4bet shoving all day
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