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LIVE spot: JJ in MP 60bbs deep
isaacjames
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May 2, 2012 - 10:17 am
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This is my local Casino Tourney, it's $100 tourney with ~105 entries.  fast structure (turbo).  10,000 chips starting stacks. skips several levels. no antes at all.

Mix of terrible players and some good cash players.

Blinds 100/200 no ante

2 FOLDs

UTG+2(passive older guy):  Limps for 200 (6000 chips, 30 bbs)

3folds

Hero JdiamondJheart in HJ raises to 650 (12,000 chips, 60 bbs)

2 folds

SB reraises to 2000 (12,800 chips, 64 bbs)  this player isa 40-50 year old regular 2-5 cash player, has shown some aggression and have seen him bluff missed draws etc… in the cash game but does not 3bet excessively.  I have not played a tourney with him before.   this is the 2nd time he 3bets in about 3-4 orbits

1 fold

UTG+2 folds

Hero?

harby33
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May 2, 2012 - 11:40 am
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The first thing that sticks out to me is that he's a cash game regular at the 2-5 level. In my opinion, this opens his range up a bit because he's use to be able to gamble a bit more and reload. I could be wrong in that he changes his strategy for tourneys, but I think most live players tend to play their game without regards to tourney/cash.

 

Given that he has 3bet OOP, it could indicate that he is strong. However, with the limper it could appear that you're trying to isolate a smaller stack and he's 3betting hoping to take the dead money from the limp and your perhapes weakish raise. He could be doing that as weak as a small pp, suited connectors, or kq/kj suited.

 

Taking that he may not consider isolation out, but remembering he's a cash game reg and just 3bet not long ago- I would say his range is somewhere in the 99+, AJ suited+, AQ off+. He could even be the type of player who is willing to gamble it up some because he can always bust and go to his normal cash game. In that case I would include 77+ and KQ suited.

 

Given that there is 3050 in the pot, only 1350 more for you to call, that you'd still have 20 BB behind and position in the hand, I would probably just call here and evaluate on the flop. I would assume that he's c-betting almost 100% the time, so bet sizing and board texture would come into play on what you decide to do next.

 

Given the fast structure, I'm sure some people will tell you to stuff it in. Given that it's an older live player, I'm sure some people will tell you to fold 🙂

harby33
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May 2, 2012 - 12:32 pm
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And that 20 was clearly supposed to be 50BB which threw the rest of my statment off. No one will tell you to shove it and no one will probably tell you to fold either. I'm not sure that 4betting in this spot would be the best though. You lose value you could gain from weaker hands on a favorable flop, and if you 4bet and he flats you'll be in a weird spot and if he jams you'll lose more than needed.

chip chimp71
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May 2, 2012 - 8:45 pm
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No need to 4b here as you'll have position and have the opportunity to get chips in the pot on later streets. I think flatting here is the best option because you'll have an opportunity to re-eval the flop and get paid well if you hit BINGO. If we look at all other options we'll notice that this is the best option…

 

Fold: Never folding JJ in position with the stack sizes and player reads, unless he open jams then we have a very tough decision

Raising (4-betting): We could 4b but by doing so we could make weaker hands fold out in this spot and thereby not maximizing the value of our hand; we could 4b right into a monster and get ourself committed to something we didn't necessarily have to do; we have position so we'll have the option to get money in at anytime after witnessing the board and the OOP's action.

Calling: We can comfortably play JJ hu, we hold position throughout, we're fairly confident that he is going to CB 100% and only re-raise with his premium hands; we have the option to float should he try to get cute and check a huge hand back at us & possibly allow you to catch up should the flop not be favorable.

 

IMO, thinking about all your options/position/stack sizes/table image and choosing the one that enables us to maximize our edge is most certainly the best way to go–I asked a great poker player once to give me a tip, he stated “Play Optimally” I'm guessing this is what was meant.

terbet11
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May 3, 2012 - 12:17 am
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With the stack sizes, this is definitely a call to set mine as well as for value.  I see him having hands such as ak, aqss, as well as QQ+ in his hand.  This is where I play my hand in position, but will also treat my JJ like they are 88 here.  The reason I say this if a flop like 10 7 5 rb you are in the same spot that you were pre (way ahead/way behind).

If i miss the flop and depending on the texture, I will get away from my hand and wait for another spot.  I also know that I am going to call a lot of c bets on the flop, because he will be doing this with his entire range.  If it is a harmless flop and the villain double barrels then this is where you need to be careful and may let my hand go. Best of luck at the tables!!

isaacjames
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May 3, 2012 - 9:17 am
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isaacjames said:

This is my local Casino Tourney, it's $100 tourney with ~105 entries.  fast structure (turbo).  10,000 chips starting stacks. skips several levels. no antes at all.

Mix of terrible players and some good cash players.

Blinds 100/200 no ante

2 FOLDs

UTG+2(passive older guy):  Limps for 200 (6000 chips, 30 bbs)

3folds

Hero JdiamondJheart in HJ raises to 650 (12,000 chips, 60 bbs)

2 folds

SB reraises to 2000 (12,800 chips, 64 bbs)  this player isa 40-50 year old regular 2-5 cash player, has shown some aggression and have seen him bluff missed draws etc… in the cash game but does not 3bet excessively.  I have not played a tourney with him before.   this is the 2nd time he 3bets in about 3-4 orbits

1 fold

UTG+2 folds

Hero so I decided to Call, in line with most suggestions 🙂

FLOP (4500): 2diamond8club3heart

villain donk bets 2500

Hero?

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

PounceBounce
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May 3, 2012 - 2:34 pm
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Yeah I’d call pre-flop because we’re not particularly short stacked and the read on villain doesn’t suggest he is particularly tight. If we were to 4bet pre it’d be bad because we’d only get it in vs better hands I believe. So the best option seems to be take a flop in position when we’re at the top of our flatting range and it’s possible he’s light. I also don't think he has much of a bluffing range here given the limper up front.

On the flop, it seems like an easy call for me. This flop is completely harmless/a top % flop for our hand other than hitting sets obv.

If we raise we’re just going to fold out worse hands like AK/AQ so we want him to continue betting those hands and making mistakes on later streets. His equity with that portion of his range is not great so I don’t see a need to raise for protection. So a raise just gets us in vs like QQ+ and folds his AK stuff.

The only way I’d raise flop is to represent a bluff raise on a dry flop, but in this scenario I don’t think there is any history to make it good and furthermore the described villain doesn’t sound capable of re-bluffing or making any advanced plays.

So I’d flat call the flop and evaluate the turn card/action.

Also my evaluation of his range might be a bit skewed because I don't play much live and don't really know what a typical 2/5 reg ranges' are in this spot. 

isaacjames
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May 4, 2012 - 3:48 pm
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This is my local Casino Tourney, it's $100 tourney with ~105 entries.  fast structure (turbo).  10,000 chips starting stacks. skips several levels. no antes at all.

Mix of terrible players and some good cash players.

Blinds 100/200 no ante

2 FOLDs

UTG+2(passive older guy):  Limps for 200 (6000 chips, 30 bbs)

3folds

Hero JdiamondJheart in HJ raises to 650 (12,000 chips, 60 bbs)

2 folds

SB reraises to 2000 (12,800 chips, 64 bbs)  this player isa 40-50 year old regular 2-5 cash player, has shown some aggression and have seen him bluff missed draws etc… in the cash game but does not 3bet excessively.  I have not played a tourney with him before.   this is the 2nd time he 3bets in about 3-4 orbits

1 fold

UTG+2 folds

Hero so I decided to Call, in line with most suggestions 🙂

FLOP (4500): 2diamond8club3heart

villain donk bets 2500

Hero:  I decided I was way ahead of his PF 3betting range which I assessed to be 99+ AQs+ AKo.  I am ahead of 16 AK combos, 4 AQs combos, 6 99 and 6 TT combos, a total of 32 combos.  I am behind 6 AA, 6 KK and 6 QQ for a total of 18 combos, so folding was out of the question especially on this fast structure tourney. Between calling and folding I hear the argument of calling and letting him bluff one more card, but with so much in the middle I preferred to take it down and avoid a AKQ to peel off and put me in a tough position on turn or river, with only a J being a good card for me.  So I shoved all in for 10000 chips with 7000 chips in the middle.

he snapped called me with 8spade8diamond for a flopped set.  no J, GG me.

I am still happy with the way I played it but would like to hear from you guys on my shove vs calling, I still think you gewt people to call light on these shoves with an 8, 99 and TT for sure and even sometimes gutshots or str8 draws as well as AK if they happen to have it on their 3bet range for some reason, and since I wasnt folding I think there is more value this way rather than calling waiting for a bluff on the turn.  Anyway any thoughts on this wouldbe apreciated

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