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I was playing a live 6-max tourny £225 and were in the 1st level 50/100 with everyone around starting stack 30k
The only read i kind of have is the sb is a cash game reg at the casino and seems very confident and relaxed playing. This tournament had alot of players playing live for the 1st time and fish. I overheard him talking to his friend and they were both saying they had soft tables and were looking to build up a stack early.
So the hand starts and it folds to the but who is an older gentleman and he makes it 300 (225 has been the standard raise so far and he had previously raised 225), sb calls and i look down at 55 and call. Is the call fine? Does anyone raise there?
So the flop comes down 567r, sb checks and i decide to lead as i dnt want the but to check and a 4 or 8 peels off and also want to build a pot vs overpairs, so i lead 375 and the but quickly raises to 1175, then the sb 3-bets to 2600. Right now im putting the button on an overpair possibly top pair (A7s/A7o). I think the sb could have straight, 2 pair or possibly bigger set, i dnt think he is the type of player to get crazy with only 1 pair, but possibly a pair and straight draw. So i decide to call and see what happens on the turn, theres only a bigger set that im crushed by. The but also calls
The turn is A and the sb thinks for about 20 seconds and leads 4200, i decide to call. Any thoughts here??
the but then folds.
The river comes 6 and sb thinks for about 10 seconds and puts in 2 5k chips.
Thoughts on what to do raise/call/fold
October 21, 2012
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daveyt86 said:
I was playing a live 6-max tourny £225 and were in the 1st level 50/100 with everyone around starting stack 30k
The only read i kind of have is the sb is a cash game reg at the casino and seems very confident and relaxed playing. This tournament had alot of players playing live for the 1st time and fish. I overheard him talking to his friend and they were both saying they had soft tables and were looking to build up a stack early.
So the hand starts and it folds to the but who is an older gentleman and he makes it 300 (225 has been the standard raise so far and he had previously raised 225), sb calls and i look down at 55 and call. Is the call fine? Does anyone raise there?
I would not raise here.
So the flop comes down 567r, sb checks and i decide to lead as i dnt want the but to check and a 4 or 8 peels off and also want to build a pot vs overpairs, so i lead 375 and the but quickly raises to 1175, then the sb 3-bets to 2600. Right now im putting the button on an overpair possibly top pair (A7s/A7o). I think the sb could have straight, 2 pair or possibly bigger set, i dnt think he is the type of player to get crazy with only 1 pair, but possibly a pair and straight draw. So i decide to call and see what happens on the turn, theres only a bigger set that im crushed by. The but also calls
This looks like a strong made hand to me maybe a set or 98, but I cant fold until I have more evidence.
The turn is A and the sb thinks for about 20 seconds and leads 4200, i decide to call. Any thoughts here??
the but then folds.
Now it seems like he was trying to set up a pot size shove here. Looks strong, I may fold here because this doesn't feel like a draw and all the strong made hands have me beat.
The river comes 6 and sb thinks for about 10 seconds and puts in 2 5k chips.
Thoughts on what to do raise/call/fold
If you thought he had a set, you couldn't call the turn. Now, it seems we have even more evidence he didnt have one because he would probably shove the river with a boat or better.
If you thought he had a straight on the turn and called for implied odds, I dont think you can fold here now that you beat straights. If you are uncertain, I guess you can just call to leave yourself some coming back chips when you are wrong.
Thanks Loxxii
All the way until the river i put him on a straight thats why i kept calling. But then on river i did think when the board paired that he would rather check call or maybe bet smaller, i was defo confused. I ended up calling and he showed 77. I think if he shoved the river i would have found the fold but i just couldnt fold for that amount.
June 1, 2012
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I think you can fold the flop live there. You can still call for implied odds here but i will think you willl be oversetted enough of the time here. It is really worth it taking such a marginal spot early you are unsure about when better spots will surely arise in such a well structured tourney? I doubt it. I need to plug here. I was playing a few days live and i raise from MP with effective stacks like 60bbs deep 10,8o get 3 caller including blinds.
Flop comes 10d,2c,8d i get donk lead into by women in the small blind she bets something like 60% of pot BB calls i raise it up guy next to me cold calls big whale women calls guy in the big blind calls. The turn was a 7d worst possible card in the deck women in sb checks guy in the BB shoves all in for like 40bbs?
I ditched the hand pretty quickly is this ok you think? No reads on BB but from the 20 hands i have seen he does not seem to be terrible not making any agrevious mistakes but i certainly do have an edge on him. Guy next to me is apsolutely horrific will chase gutshots all the way to river and limps like 60% of hands your typical loose passie fish. Anyway, I thought it would be pretty outrageous for this player to be bluffing here OOP against a whale and a skilled player who both very well could have sets, straights, flushes etc. So heres what happens. I fold, the whale folds, the SB calls and shows JJs with no diamonds and the guy in the BB shows 4,8o. I was stunned when they both turned over there cards. I have no idea what the BB was thinking. I dont mind his play it puts my entire range that is not a flush under so much heat even weak flushes but he couldent of choosen the worst 2 other players left behind to try this on they could still have flushes and they are never folding in a million years if they do even straights and 2 pairs.
daveyt86 said:
Does anyone raise there?
no, i like overcalling here from the bb. you're very deep and flopping a set is very valuable multi way. if you 3bet and saw a HU flop where you flopped a set you're much less likely to get action.
So the flop comes down 567r, sb checks and i decide to lead as i dnt want the but to check and a 4 or 8 peels off and also want to build a pot vs overpairs, so i lead 375 and the but quickly raises to 1175, then the sb 3-bets to 2600. Right now im putting the button on an overpair possibly top pair (A7s/A7o). I think the sb could have straight, 2 pair or possibly bigger set, i dnt think he is the type of player to get crazy with only 1 pair, but possibly a pair and straight draw. So i decide to call and see what happens on the turn, theres only a bigger set that im crushed by. The but also calls
i like the call. SB seems aggressive based on your off-the-table reads and could potentially be badgering you guys here with pair+str8 draw or top two (him defending 76s isnt out of the question here). if he has you beat somehow you have 33% equity roughly and would probably get PAID if/when you suck out. for sure a call when you're this deep to start
ALSO i think its important to note that i think your lead “looks” weak to most opponents. original raisers (paging BigDog) LOVE to punish donk leads with a large portion of your range. its even slightly possible the SB has picked up on this and is trying to punish the button for punishing your lead. this leads me to believe he can have weaker holdings than an average player here.
The turn is A and the sb thinks for about 20 seconds and leads 4200, i decide to call. Any thoughts here??
the but then folds.
hes betting about half pot. this is something ive been looking more into a lot lately, i would say his “sizing” doesnt give away any tells about the strength of his hand here. an A on the turn is a very interesting card because he shouldn't be too pleased about it. his strong two pairs (76s, 75, etc) have been potentially downgraded to the 2nd best hand. him betting here to me indicates hes more polarized to strong holdings or continuation of a big bluff.
The river comes 6 and sb thinks for about 10 seconds and puts in 2 5k chips.
Thoughts on what to do raise/call/fold
folding never seems to be an option here, but in a tournament raising seems bad also. im going to say right away that i think calling is best, and here's why:
this is a classic spot where tournaments differ from cash games. in a tournament, each chip lost is worth more than each chip gained. in your case, doubling your stack up to 60k isnt really as crucial as not busting your original 30k stack. if you were to call and be shown 77, or 76s for a better boat, you still have 17k (170bb) left and apparently a really weak field (as you said in the OP). you still have an okay chance of making a run in the tournament. obviously, if you were to ship all in, get called by these same hands, you're busted and have 0% chance of winning the tournament.
also, as i talked about concerning villains hand range earlier, i think villain is pretty likely to be polarized here, especially considering the turn card. this is a spot where (in my estimation) he is betting with the absolute nuts (77, 66, 76s, maybe A6s somehow?) or complete air. in this instance shoving all in over the 10k accomplishes nothing: he'll call you and stack you with his nuts hands, and snap fold and give you nothing more with his bluffs. THE ONLY DISCLAIMER here is that he could also have some low – to – nut straights that still bet when the board paired, and its debatable whether he'd sigh call the shove or fold, who knows? but for the sake of our discussion im going to assume this is a spot where you only value-own yourself by shoving, and in a tournament you need to avoid that more than ever.
in conclusion, i would be pretty happy with calling. if i get shown a better hand, i still have 170bb to utilize versus a weak table. if your opponent shows a bluff, then great! you have 50k
loxxii said:
Now it seems like he was trying to set up a pot size shove here. Looks strong, I may fold here because this doesn't feel like a draw and all the strong made hands have me beat.
If you thought he had a set, you couldn't call the turn. Now, it seems we have even more evidence he didnt have one because he would probably shove the river with a boat or better.
hey loxxii, i dont totally agree with above statements here ^^
if im doing my math right, by the river with the calls there is 17.1k in the pot {3(300) + 3(2600) + 2(4200)} and the villain should have ~22.9k in his stack. he'd be shoving about 1.3x pot, so i dont think its fair to assume he would be shoving boats here all the time.
also, included in all the “strong” hands you should probably include all two pair combinations. if he defended a hand that makes a straight on this board, ie 43s or 98s, then why couldnt he plausibly have defended, 65s 76s 75s or suited connectors that make pair+straight draws here? even if you (correctly) argue that he might not play pair+straight draw combos as fast as the former hands, i still think he doesnt have to have “made hands” here all the time. lastly, if he DOES have a straight here, we have 33% equity to make a boat and some implied odds to get paid since stacks are so deep and he'd likely keep firing. even if he just call/call when we make boats it's likely to be worth our while.
If you thought he had a straight on the turn and called for implied odds, I dont think you can fold here now that you beat straights. If you are uncertain, I guess you can just call to leave yourself some coming back chips when you are wrong.
i do, however, completely agree with this statement.
fun hand/thread
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