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pillow100
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September 18, 2010 - 12:44 pm
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…..om/2697237

 

hh converter wasnt working interested in whether you think the river is a call or fold and anything else in the line I took, was expecting a bet on river just not a shove

 

Full Tilt Poker Game #24002111570: $12 + $1 KO Sit & Go (185671114), Table 2 – 20/40 – No Limit Hold'em – 12:22:23 ET – 2010/09/18
Seat 1: pillow100 (2,875)
Seat 2: 9serg9 (2,865)
Seat 3: LUNILA (2,955)
Seat 4: madame1 xxx (1,280)
Seat 5: kennyzinck (2,790)
Seat 6: busyb222 (2,830)
Seat 7: NeedAnOceanCard (2,835)
Seat 8: elson831 (5,550)
Seat 9: spongebob11 (3,170)
9serg9 posts the small blind of 20
LUNILA posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pillow100 [6d 6h]
madame1 xxx folds
kennyzinck folds
busyb222 folds
NeedAnOceanCard folds
elson831 calls 40
spongebob11 folds
pillow100 raises to 200
9serg9 folds
LUNILA folds
elson831 calls 160
*** FLOP *** [4h Js 9d]
elson831 bets 40
pillow100 raises to 250
elson831 raises to 460
pillow100 calls 210
*** TURN *** [4h Js 9d] [2h]
elson831 bets 40
pillow100 calls 40
*** RIVER *** [4h Js 9d 2h] [3d]
elson831 has 15 seconds left to act
elson831 bets 4,850, and is all in
pillow100?
geez0r
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September 18, 2010 - 1:55 pm
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I fold to the reraise on the flop.   No way I'm calling the shove one the river.  Still very early on in the tourney so Id let it go.  you still have plenty of chips.

JDOG1645
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September 20, 2010 - 9:01 am
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Your at blind  20/40 and your playing this hand way to aggressive at this stage of the game imo.  Your deep and the other guy is deep enough that I dont hate flatting his raise pre after we limp, I just check fold the flop there.  I doubt you have many reads on this guy so early but the way he played flop and turn I think he has Jx and when you simply called his small bet on the turn he knew you were not that strong and his shove takes away any play you could have had….again I just fold flop.

pillow100
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September 20, 2010 - 9:48 am
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il break down my thought process during that hand and I would love some feedback on that.

 

preflop: I can defo see the argument for flatting but against a limper iso raising with position probably has more expected value as  a lot of the time the limper simply check folds the flop

 

on the flop: I have been experimenting with what different bet sizes mean against random fish,  from what I have seen the min bet especially say 40 into 460 is either air or a draw. I believe generally with a set/2pair they will elect to c/c flop c/r turn and with a pair especially a weak top pair bet pot. Despite show down value if my read is correct I narrow his range to Q10, KQ 87 or A high  and a lot of the time when you cbet over the min bet they just fold . The 3 bet on flop I can never see being strength as I dont believe these randoms plan to donk min bet so they can 3bet lighter raises (it looks more to me like he is pressing buttons :P) however obviously this doesn't happen to often so I am unsure of whether this is correct or I have just learnt from the small sample size of when this has happened to me

 

Turn: I believe the turn min bet after the blank confirms he does not have any made hand at the time, however I elect to call despite feeling I am ahead as I can't see this type of player folding his draw to a bet and there are a lot of scary river cards and calling the 40 into 1380 helps pot control and I am fully expecting a bet on the river and to call if a non scary card comes.

 

River: I was really expecting after another what seemed to be blank card came on the river that a bet of around 500-600 would be made by the villain (which I find is usually the size roughly they like to bluff as opposed to nearer pot/or a shove that is usually for value). however given my perceived reads from his previous streets I believe he can't have hit the board, I guess 56 doesn't 3bet flop and as previously stated I don't believe he minbet/3bets Jx or 9x or 4x so 2 pair seems unlikely and his line is unlikely to mean he has hit a set on river as he wouldn't minbet/bet 33 on the flop. Therefore I narrowed it down to being air and made the call.

 

unfortunately he hit back door straight with A5 therefore electing to shove. I was going to write; given thought process it would be a hero fold, however despite these reads i'm not sure he ever overshoves air as opposed to betting 1/3rd to half pot.

 

I would love to hear some thoughts on how you guys perceive bet sizes especially from players who aren't thinking above level 1

 

lots of love pillow wink

FkCoolers
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September 20, 2010 - 11:38 am
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I'm not a fan of this line at any stage.

Pre: Too much. If you want to 3X your opens I'd make your ISO raise 3X + 1 BB per limper. I prob limp behind and try to flop a set but whatever … the more grievous mistakes are post-flop in this hand.

Flop: I'm fne with raising a min donk lead but what range do you assign him once he 3 bets where you actually stand a good chance to win at showdown? I can't think of anything.

Turn: Why just call? So far you've repped a very strong hand and now you completely contradict that.

River: Fold 100%

In closing … it sounds like on the flop and on the turn you thought you were actually ahead so my question is why not shove then? I'd never play it this way but if you strongly feel like he has nothing but a draw you absolutely have to shove the Turn.

QT is really the only draw out there that should make sense but there are lots of bad players out there …

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