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checkraizer1
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March 7, 2011 - 1:17 pm
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So the hand itself isnt that interesting.  The question I have is could i have ever gotten more here.

 

Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t150/t300 Blinds + t25 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

nogueirams25 (MP2): BB = 56.1, t16826
DJAMUXA (CO): BB = 86.2, t25860
El Witon (BTN): BB = 7.2, t2173
msn38 (SB): BB = 25.1, t7534
UNICORN BUG (BB): BB = 27.8, t8325
Rotbert83 (UTG): BB = 7.9, t2370
djmaya23 (UTG+1): BB = 7.4, t2231
Hero (UTG+2): BB = 73.5, t22046
Paja0918 (MP1): BB = 29.6, t8879

Pre Flop: (t675) Hero is UTG+2 with 9 of spades Q of spades
1 fold, djmaya23 calls t300, Hero calls t300, 4 folds, msn38 calls t150, UNICORN BUG checks

Flop: (t1425) 5 of diamonds T of spades 4 of clubs (4 players)
msn38 checks, UNICORN BUG checks, djmaya23 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t1425) A of spades (4 players)
msn38 checks, UNICORN BUG checks, djmaya23 checks, Hero checks

River: (t1425) J of spades (4 players)
msn38 checks, UNICORN BUG bets t1300, djmaya23 folds, Hero raises to t2600, msn38 folds, UNICORN BUG calls t1300

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RonFezBuddy
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March 7, 2011 - 1:44 pm
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Personally, i don't like the preflop limp.  You have to fold to a raise behind you, and your limp is going to normally encourage a ton more limpers so you're going to be playing this hand out of position.  That didn't happen this time but it usually does.  It's great if you flop the nuts but I don't think it happens enough to be profitable.

 

I'd take a stab at the turn.  No one wants this pot and you can pick it up a high percentage of the time.

 

On the river he either has nothing (which folds almost all the time anyway), a small showdown hand like a pair of Js, or a baby flush/straight.  I think a smaller raise is better than a bigger one here because most of the time he's going to have a showdown pair or straight and not call a big bet.  I might go a little bigger than 2600 though.  If he's calling 2600 with one of those hands he probably calls 2900 – 3300.  If he's got a baby flush he'll call obv more but I'd keep it in that range to try to hit his value range.

checkraizer1
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March 7, 2011 - 1:57 pm
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Ok so i do agree with you on the flop play being spewy generally.  The table had been playing very passively and it seemed like a hand that would play well if it did limp around.  The turn card being an A seems like a bad spot to me to try and semi bluff at because the very reason the flop limp was speewy.  If someone has a weak A and decides to reraise I gotta fold the draw.  Thought checking the A and possibly flatting would be better in that spot.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks for the feedback!

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RonFezBuddy
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March 7, 2011 - 2:08 pm
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I think an A bets the turn to protect vs draws.  And even if someone is holding a weak A, I doubt that they are going to c/r you with it.  Why would they encourage you to take a free draw card + build a big pot with a weakish hand.

 

While a bet doesn't always take it down right there – you will enough + get to see your river equity for when behind.

checkraizer1
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March 7, 2011 - 2:17 pm
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Sounds like good advice.  Now looking back at it I see what your saying.  Thanks againg RFB!!!

mmfitter
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March 7, 2011 - 2:43 pm
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I think the hand itstelf is plenty interesting. There could be an argument for raising pre. I mean you have a big stack and by raising, you may iso the utg limper that's prob weak here most of the time and have position on him if he limp/calls. And by limping behind, you're basically telling the table, I never have a gd pp here or gd b'wys. By raising, it helps widening your ep raising range that might come in handy later when you have a premium in ep. And you can safely fold to a 3 bet bec I don't think this hand plays well if oop vs someones re-raise range. Plus it helps you take down the pot on the flop after taking the pre initiative by raising pre.

I guess limping behind is not that bad, but I really hate limp/folding. And if you limp/call a hand like this, I think that's very bad oop bec then u may get involved in a neg reverse implide odds situation or a spot where you're chasing a flush draw oop without the initiative.

As played, I don't think betting this dry flop when ch'd to is very bad at all. You have a back door fl and str8 where you can expect to see alot of gd turn cards. I think u would take down the pot a large % of the time  and if I was called by anyone here, I prob would bet any turn card ip bec if anyone did ch/call then ch/fold the turn, it's pretty apparent they had a weak chasing hand. And I would make a note on that player for possible barreling opportunities later.

I think I would use my position advantage and bet the turn as well. Plus you now know that no has the As and you would have the 2nd nut flush if another spade came.

I think you should make your raise a little bigger on the river because you just showed the table you minraised the river with a very strong hand. Would you ever use that sizing without a made hand? 

As it turned out you won a nice pot bec the flush came, but most of the times that's not going to happen. If a spade didn't come on the river as played here, you would have to fold to almost any bet meanwhile, you never used your position advantage and decent equity in a pot that nobody seemed to want.

checkraizer1
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March 7, 2011 - 7:09 pm
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So the other reason I limped pre was so if it did get raised I could flat and get to a flop relatively cheap.  Might not be right but that's what I was thinking.  I'm realizing that that's probably not good.  But I felt with this many chips this was the kind of hand that  I could splash around with and actually win a big pot.  On the river the thinking was it might look like a weak bluff at the  pot and its a relatively large bet considering the stacks and the pot.  Any other thoughts?

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