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KTs: 3bet light, facing min-cold-4bet at $11+R FT
Sen
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June 24, 2014 - 1:55 pm
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I mean given the price, I thought I should call and continue with 2pair, OESD and good looking flushdraw (dry boards) when facing correct odds. Also on some flops villain may show weakness despite his (extremely strong looking) 4bet pre.

This is at the FT of a stars $11+R, $2.7k on top, $325 for 8th.

Except for two players (one of them sitting out for 25 hands) all players are very competent regs (OPR: 99,9%+).

 

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t3500/t7000 Blinds + t700 – 8 players-

BTN: BB = 58.9, t412382
SB: BB = 60.2, t421453
BB: BB = 27.4, t191908
UTG: BB = 41.1, t287636
UTG+1: BB = 18.8, t131880
MP1: BB = 29.0, t203331
MP2: BB = 51.2, t358266
Hero (CO): BB = 46.9, t328144

Pre Flop: (t16100) Hero is CO with K of clubs T of clubs
2 folds, MP1 raises to t14000, 1 fold, Hero raises to t31500, 2 folds, BB raises to t51000, 1 fold, Hero calls t19500

Flop: (t125100) 5 of diamonds K of spades 3 of clubs (2 players)
BB bets t55555, Hero folds

Final Pot: t125100
BB wins t125100

 

I wonder if calling and giving up on such a dry board is a good idea? I mean I see him having KK, AA pre, rarely AK or QQ, but I doubt he would cbet so small. I think his cbet sizing should be smaller if he was holding AA or KK. Really weired imo. What do you guys think about his range and about the way we played this hand. I am not happy but feel uncertain what to do better.

Obviously the 3bet pre with KTs is debateable, the original raiser was just opening very wide from EP, so it felt appropriate.

jacobsharktank
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June 27, 2014 - 4:10 am
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If you think he'd cbet JJ/QQ here too, that adds 12 combos of hands you sucked out on. he likely doesnt barrel them

jasonchr
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June 27, 2014 - 10:27 am
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The light 3B pre seems like a decent spot if he is opening wide.

But it honestly seems like a fold to the 4B, especially if these are all competent regs like you said. Villian should not be doing this light from his stack size, so I'd have to range him QQ+, AK. He would probably flat JJ here but maybe not. So with that range, he may already hold some of the outs you are hoping for with a flush draw/straight draw and he obviously dominates the K as well. I can't run the math on it right now but it seems like taking ICM into consideration we should just fold.

 

The cbet on the flop does seem polarized – like Jacob said either qq/jj or trying to get you to spew with AA/AK/KK. Why do you think he doesn't have AK or QQ in his range pre?

Poking_Fun
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June 27, 2014 - 11:07 am
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I like the 3b pre-flop, you are not committed to anyone and MP1 now has to make a decision for all his chips given his stack size. He can't just 4b/f in the spot you have him in.

I think the cold 4b here is likely to be very strong for a few reasons:

1. He is committing himself to calling a shove from you or the opener.

2. He is OOP which makes it very unlikely he would offer compelling odds preflop.

3. I think even hands as strong as JJ / AK would either shove or make a bigger 4b preflop due to vulnerability.

4. In a $10 MTT the chances of someone 4b bluffing in this way are probably remote.

The call of the 4b is probably a bit loose. I think if you call in these situations and make a pair + backdoor flush draw then you have to go with it against a 20bbs stack otherwise you are spewing chips as the opportunities to proceed on the flop are going to be pretty limited and even when you do proceed you are crushed a lot of the time. 

I think the cbet sizing of 40% is pretty common on a dry board with his air and big hands and having called preflop I kind of feel compelled to call at least one bet but again that gets awkward as you are probably committed then.

I had a similar hand a while back and ended up calling a small flop bet and feeling pretty uncomfortable. As it happened, villain had QJ and paired his Q and I paired my K. I felt it would be too weak to give up there and then but wasn't happy about it! These are tricky spots and can probably be avoided by folding preflop having only invested a small amount.

Sen
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June 27, 2014 - 1:30 pm
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Thanks guys! Yeah I think i was just thrown off his small sizing which actually isn't THAT small and I guess I should just fold*, especially when I am in a relatively easy spot with the bottom of my 3betting range.

Long time ago I read that one major concept to be successful in poker. is avoiding spots where you have no real plan how to proceed. I thought I had one, but in retro I think I didn't

Finished 3rd when my AQ lost to 99 pre. Was left with the two best players at the table, so I feel fine with the result.

 

*although, I believe that this might be a super profitable move for some sickos against an ideal spot like this, because one should never assume villain to be light here (beeing OOP and leaving behind his relativly small stack). I do some 4bet-cold bluffing myself in spots where a super-reg 3bets the other super-reg who just can't help and open any UTG but haven't tried this extremly low sizing…

Sen
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June 27, 2014 - 1:46 pm
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jasonchr said:

Why do you think he doesn't have AK or QQ in his range pre?

I think so, because QQ doesn't want to see a flop with a K or A, and I am sure any AK, AQ, AJs should call his small bet. So max value should be a shove, he will then get likely called with JJ+ and maybe AQ+, sometimes even 88+.

Same with AKo: Nice hand to have in a spot like this, especially if he suspects me to be light, but calling OOP isn't something you want to do, and giving us the right odds to peel with actually any pair to set-mine (even though it's borderline) seems bad, too. So he should probably just shove, again.

I don't hate his play as a semi bluff with AQ, AJs or 99 or similar, though. Just seems very unorthodox. It worked obv. as I felt very uncertain how to play this hand, pre and post. I mean, given stack sizes I don't see me folding top-pair on this board often…. Thats for sure.

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