Home
(0 votes) 
Obv we got history. How’s his line against herofish who flatcalls 6hi with tiny effective stack sizes?
Merge, $30 Buy-in (800/1,600 blinds, 160 ante) No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools by CardRunners – Hand Details
MP3: 25,629 (16 bb)
Hero (CO): 91,047 (56.9 bb)
BTN: 21,823 (13.6 bb)
SB: 26,958 (16.8 bb)
BB: 55,997 (35 bb)
UTG+2: 54,367 (34 bb)
MP1: 15,996 (10 bb)
MP2: 35,624 (22.3 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 2
6
2 folds, [color=”red”]MP2 raises to 3,420[/color], [color=”grey”]MP3 folds[/color], [color=”red”]Hero raises to 8,888[/color], 3 folds, [color=”red”]MP2 raises to 15,995[/color], Hero calls 7,107
Flop: (35,670) 3 3
T[color=”blue”] (2 players)[/color]
[color=”red”]MP2 bets 13,147[/color], [color=”red”]Hero raises to 74,892 and is all-in[/color], MP2 calls 6,322 and is all-in
Turn: (74,608) 4
[color=”blue”] (2 players, 2 are all-in)[/color]
River: (74,608) 5[color=”blue”] (2 players, 2 are all-in)[/color]
Results: 74,608 pot
Final Board: 3 3 T 4 5
Hero showed 2 6 and won 74,608 (38,984 net)
MP2 showed J Q and lost (-35,624 net)
I don’t really like villains 4bet. He should be shoving I think
TiltedEV is right and villain should just be shoving or folding preflop after he gets three bet. Depends on the table dynamic, but he probably shouldn’t be opening qjoff from there with his stack size. He is better off waiting for a hand he can shove over an open, or a better hand that he can open/4 bet get it in. If he expects you to be 3 betting him light, then a jam is okay once he opens, but I usually don’t 3 bet that small of a stack as a bluff because they are usually going with their hand once they open (or they should be).
As for the hero, you can get away with a much smaller 3 bet sizing. He should never be flatting you oop with his stack size anyway. Also, why are we flatting his 3 bet? I know you said you had history but that doesnt make this okay lol. Also, you should just be folding flop to and save the 10bb. You aren’t getting the odds against his range to even just draw for a pair. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just decided to mess around in this hand, but seriously, just muck the 62ss to his open next time 😉
I have trouble folding anything given 4:1 potodds in position preflop, especially knowing if I connect he is commited to stacking off. It felt super fishy ingame. Leak?
Fold on flop with gutshot straight+flush draw with SPR of 1? Not in this lifetime.
I sized the 3b a bit larger than normal with the intent to get a bit more FE with such trash. Fail.
One thing about the “he’s competent and should be 4b or folding” mantra that the good players constantly post in the forums: I don’t argue with the concept. But I play ABI of $30 (Merge,Cake,True), and in my games people flat 3bs OOP as often as they 4b IMO. And I feel they do vary their calling/4b frequencies based on my 3b sizing. Sometimes I wonder if the good posters are generally in games (ABI $50+) where the mantra is more accurately followed.
@”he’s generally not raise/folding this stack size”. Then I’m thinking about it wrong. I raise/fold a shitton 18-23BBs eff. when the tables nitty or we’re near a bubble. Is this bad? Are there not many of us doing it? I watched a sick Chuck Bass vid yesterday and he’s stealing way shallower than this, intending to fold his bad aces to 11BB resteals, (with the caveat that he makes these plays against Merge nits not PS regs).
What intrigues me about the villains line is that I don’t think he’s folding to a 5b, but feels he can gain more chips and look stronger with a min raise/lead any flop. He knows I’m loose and light and will flat that minraise alot.
I’ve noticed this a bunch in games this week: Everyones coming up with OOP lines that look really strong pre, and leave them enough to leadjam near pot on any flop. Go and Gos, but not just out of the blinds anymore. Now I see it in the form of light mini 4bets from EP. And it often seems good to me, though the hand I posted here may be taking the idea a bit too far.
Yeah you need to be folding the 62s for sure I think. But I understand what you’re saying. Will answer the rest when I get home because I think there’s a lot of interesting stuff here
sorry i thought you had a different suit. yeah you cant fold on the flop with the flush draw and possibly live cards.
July 3, 2010
Offline
I think your leak here is flatting pre when there are lots of flops you’ll fold to getting almost a 3 to 1 price on villain’s flop shove when you completely miss.
And you’re right – he isn’t folding to a 5 bet because half his stack is already in the middle.
I think your leak here is flatting pre when there are lots of flops you’ll fold to getting almost a 3 to 1 price on villain’s flop shove when you completely miss.
And you’re right – he isn’t folding to a 5 bet because half his stack is already in the middle.
Yep. The woes of lagging it up with baby suiteds when effective stacks are shallow. Do I need to be mucking here to the 3b pre despite getting 6:1 for the same reasoning:
Merge, $109 Buy-in (125/250 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools by CardRunners – Hand Details
SB: 10,925 (43.7 bb)
BB: 9,112 (36.4 bb)
UTG+1: 5,647 (22.6 bb)
Hero (UTG+2): 23,361 (93.4 bb)
MP1: 4,975 (19.9 bb)
MP2: 5,920 (23.7 bb)
MP3: 10,701 (42.8 bb)
CO: 5,802 (23.2 bb)
BTN: 7,604 (30.4 bb)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 7 5
[color=”grey”]UTG+1 folds[/color], [color=”red”]Hero raises to 555[/color], [color=”red”]MP1 raises to 1,110[/color], MP2 calls 1,110, 5 folds, Hero calls 555
Flop: (3,930) 3 Q T[color=”blue”] (3 players)[/color]
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks
Turn: (3,930) 4[color=”blue”] (3 players)[/color]
[color=”red”]Hero bets 22,226 and is all-in[/color], MP1 calls 3,840 and is all-in, [color=”grey”]MP2 folds[/color]
River: (11,610) 8
[color=”blue”] (2 players, 2 are all-in)[/color]
Villain’s line is pretty terrible but there’s a possibility he 4bet to that sizing because he assumed you would never flat on those stack sizes and he wanted to give himself extra fold equity by trying to look super strong. If that’s what he was doing preflop that was also what he was doing on the flop – trying to look as strong as possible to narrow the range with which you were willing to get it in with him, and just accepting that he had to call off if you did shove. I can’t blame you for getting it in on the flop with a FD and possible live cards, but preflop is where the first hand was butchered.
The 62s hand is a really terrible spot to 3bet light because there are so many shortstacks behind you – for example, if the button shoved over your 3bet he’d be shoving 21k into a 16k pot (roughly), and you’d be left calling just over 12k to win a 37k pot, where by your logic you wouldn’t be able to fold, and all of a sudden you’ve thrown away a bunch of chips with 62s. I don’t like villain’s line in the first hand, but it would be a much better line if you hadn’t been capable of flatting on that stack size.
The 75s hand is also really bad. Opening there preflop is pretty bad unless the table is super tight, and the only time it is okay to open there is if you’re snapfolding to any further action. Situations like the one you got into on the 75s hand are exactly the reason why you can’t flat hands like that, especially OOP, on those stack sizes – you’re almost never going to flop the best hand, and you have very few chips behind with which to get them to fold postflop. In the example given you only had one pot sized bet available to you, and it’s just impossible to rep anything with just one bet. Even if you were to open-ship that flop, you’re just needlessly gambling against super bladed ranges. The fact that you can get yourself into sticky situations when you flop a flush draw and two guys check the flop is EXACTLY the reason why flatting 3bets preflop should only be done in certain circumstances, and those circumstances are far less common when you’re OOP.
I like the outside-the-box thinking, but sometimes there’s a reason why the box exists. 🙂
Villain’s line is horrible all streets……imo he should be shoving or folding pre with that stack…as played, he only shuts you out with a stop-n-go shove on the flop(do those even work anymore?) as played-nice bink, Hero…..what is villain’s screename?
Most Users Ever Online: 2780
Currently Online:
56 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
bennymacca: 2616
Foucault: 2067
folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133
praetor: 1033
theginger45: 924
P-aire 146: 832
Turbulence: 768
The Riceman: 731
duggs: 591
florianm1: 588
Newest Members:
Tillery999
sdmathis89
ne0x00
adrianvaida2525
Anteeater
Laggro
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 24
Topics: 12705
Posts: 75003
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1063
Members: 12008
Moderators: 2
Admins: 5
Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos
Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1
