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KK in BB against large stack UTG raise with an A on the flop?
cousteer
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April 6, 2012 - 12:56 am
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This hand has been bothering me, Ignzy is running 13/7 5pfr and rarely opening utg. I've been the most aggressive at the table 23/16/11, but haven't shown down too often. I guess my image is a bit predatory.

My intial plan was to click back the raise to try and get some value post flop, however, the flopped A stymied me..

My concerns here are that nitty Ignzy's utg raise appears to represent a strong hand, his stack can inflict some damage and I'm oop. Is it worth leading out (40K ish) on the A high flop to help define his range and perhaps take down the pot, or c/c, c/r his small (fishy) bet…. 

I hate these spots! Any advice would be appreciated.

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t4000/t8000 Blinds + t800 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Roland_NL (SB): BB = 33.2, t265301
Hero (BB): BB = 68.1, t544695
Ignzy (UTG): BB = 109.0, t871806
Martin Dugin (UTG+1): BB = 29.5, t235813
ANTON822 (UTG+2): BB = 15.6, t124813
leledoni (MP1): BB = 45.2, t361820
DOIT4TEHCASH (MP2): BB = 8.4, t67268
zzverevzz (CO): BB = 36.3, t290224
MoonKick (BTN): BB = 17.0, t136260

Pre Flop: (t19200) Hero is BB with K of hearts K of spades
Ignzy raises to t18600, 7 folds, Hero raises to t36955, Ignzy calls t18355

Flop: (t85110) 2 of spades A of diamonds 4 of clubs (2 players)
Hero checks, Ignzy bets t24000, Hero folds

JLUDEOBV
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April 6, 2012 - 4:32 am
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I don't really think he has an ace here often unless it is AQ. I don't see him flatting your 3b with a worse ace and with AK he's more than likely re-raising. I am c-betting this flop as I think you are definitely being called by worse a good amount of the time. If called you can re-evaluate on the turn and take it from there. I just think check giving up on this flop is just way too weak of a line to take.

bennymacca
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April 6, 2012 - 5:19 am
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dont agree, this deep a bunch of aces will flat a 3bet. 

 

i would probably betfold 40k or so. gotta rep that ace yourself

badabing78
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April 6, 2012 - 6:27 am
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bennymacca said:

 i would probably betfold 40k or so. gotta rep that ace yourself

i think this is the optimal play(id bet 35k i guess), or check raising but i dont like just giving up without trying.

 

@benny:i think with this stats he has UTG normally not many more aces than AK,AQ in his range.

duggs
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April 6, 2012 - 7:42 am
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id check/call flop, and bet turn if he checks behind. the part of his range that gives us value isnt going to be giving us 3 streets so we can bet turn if he checks behind and keep the pot smaller when we are beat. Is this a bad line to take?

thedonator716
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April 6, 2012 - 9:22 pm
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I cbet flop. With you're image you'll still get called by smaller pairs and sometimes be able to take it down there. If called I ck the turn expecting him to ck behind most of the time if he doesn't have an ace. If he bets the turn I just fold. If you get to the river you can bet small as a blocker/value bet and maybe get a call from a smaller pair or check and decide wether or not you want to call a bet from him. Haven't been playing much online and I'm a little rusty so I may be way off here.

bennymacca
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April 6, 2012 - 10:36 pm
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duggs said:

id check/call flop, and bet turn if he checks behind. the part of his range that gives us value isnt going to be giving us 3 streets so we can bet turn if he checks behind and keep the pot smaller when we are beat. Is this a bad line to take?

personally i dont like the c/c flop, because it puts us into the guessing game on later streets

cousteer
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April 7, 2012 - 7:27 pm
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Cbet fold makes the most sense in retrospect. Stacks are plenty deep enough. My fold was way too passive. My thought process was over run at the time by “saving chips and getting him next time”. Spending a few extra seconds on my decision making process may have resolved this clear mistake, thanks.

Its funny that it’s not until you post a hand in this forum that the play becomes obvious.

duggs
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April 8, 2012 - 10:07 am
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can someone explain the thought process behind cbet/folding? arent we essentially turning our hand into a bluff as we dont get anything better to fold, but could potentially induce stabs from smaller pairs if we check/call flop. and if they check behind we can get called by smaller pairs if we fire a delayed cbet. are you guys intending to double barrel this when called or just shut down?

 

@benny, i would rather play the guessing game against a wider range. i assume someone with those stats will pretty much never double barrel a 3bet pot without an A. so if they bet flop and then barrel turn then i give up as their range is weighted towards AQ/AK rather than the QQ/JJ/1010/99/88 than will probably only fire one barrel with.

bennymacca
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April 8, 2012 - 9:39 pm
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Ill come back to this when I have a bit more time, but what I will do is work out the combos of 88-qq vs the combos of ak-aj, I think there will be more combos of aces but not sure

andinista
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April 9, 2012 - 8:57 am
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Cbet flop 36k/fold.

Though your line is fine against certain villains, who you know to play very face up. Without this read keep yourself from being exploited by cbetting.

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