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K7o on SB 24BB eff. vs regular
Sedrick
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December 14, 2010 - 1:47 am
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Hi, I play MiniFtops 6max 109$ and i dont know, if this spot good. Behind me sit high stakes regular krasark (on BB). What can I do here? I think, that openfold K7o here is weak, limp stab on this regular doesnt work. And raise/fold was bad here, because he will shove to mee a big range, but im not ahead with K7o to raise/call.

We have a long history, when he 5bets me light and 3barrel to me with Ahigh. I play aggressive with stats 31/28/14, but on reshove stack I fallen few hands before this, so I didnt played reshoves.

 

I was very suprised, when he shows A3o, because with this hand, he is behind on my shoving range. How I can play it a what range did you shove?

 

e: unexploitable push by nash is shove 44.5% and his calling range is 25% for good call i think…

 

Full Tilt Poker MiniFTOPS Event #16 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t600/t1200 Blinds + t150 – 6 players

TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

danamagic (CO): BB = 64.7, t77641

Mr-Rubik (BTN): BB = 12.8, t15319

SedrickDobi (SB): BB = 24.0, t28806

krasark (BB): BB = 61.1, t73335

O Shark Eater O (UTG): BB = 24.7, t29603

Leonidas758 (MP): BB = 115.6, t138761

Pre Flop: (t2700) SedrickDobi is SB with K of spades 7 of diamonds

4 folds, SedrickDobi raises to t28656 all in, krasark calls t27456

Flop: (t58212) Q of hearts Q of diamonds 8 of diamonds (2 players – 1 is all in)

Turn: (t58212) 5 of hearts (2 players – 1 is all in)

River: (t58212) Q of clubs (2 players – 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t58212

SedrickDobi shows K of spades 7 of diamonds (three of a kind, Queens)

krasark shows A of spades 3 of hearts (three of a kind, Queens)

krasark wins t58212

 

sorry for my bad english…

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Metasploit
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December 14, 2010 - 9:32 am
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For what it's worth I think the shove here is a little too aggressive and open shoving 25 bb's is probably not what you want to do here. If you had 10/15 bb's then it's probably an easier, more correct shove (someone correct me if i'm wrong w/ that line of thinking)

You also said that hes a regular and that you guys have history which would effect my decision to open shove somewhat.

He has a big stack with an ace in the blinds 6 handed which he assumes most of the time is the best hand and hes ahead of your overshove in most cases if he thinks your weak and just trying to steal the blinds/antes, unless you are trying to level him into thinking that your weak while you really have AA or some other monster hand. This play would have worked really well considering your history IF you had a monster hand here and shoved to make it look weak.

why is raise / fold so bad here in your opinion? You would still have over 20bb's if he 3 bet shoved

Also sometimes you just gotta walk the guy out for image / table dynamic purposes especailly if you guys have history at this table.

I probably just fold and look to take down the next pot since you will have the button and position.

gl 🙂

Sedrick
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December 14, 2010 - 2:03 pm
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next advice ?

swet1
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December 14, 2010 - 2:30 pm
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Im thinking that a fold would be better here, same as Meta. Simply because of your stack size @ 24 bb you dont need to shove yet and you dont have a enough play to use other options. I dont think I would raise fold although some might.

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Killingbird
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December 14, 2010 - 2:42 pm
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yeah, seems a little too big to be shoving.

FkCoolers
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December 14, 2010 - 3:52 pm
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He called because of your aggro stats – 24 bb's is not necessary there. Your stack is ok and so is the structure.

It's a case where some times it is easier and better to pass on a very marginal +EV spot since it is not a cash game and you cannot reload.

bjizzle44
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December 14, 2010 - 7:38 pm
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really  like wt meta says at the end of his post. folding to preserve image. very solid advice. i think its a easy fold as others mentioned. with 24bb we're not at the panic stage and we've got an entire orbit to pick spots after this hand. fold and move on.

 

bjizz

Sedrick
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December 14, 2010 - 11:06 pm
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sorry for this comment, but fold here is the worst option… everybody here post result oriented option, if shove here is +ev or unexploitable push in Nash, then fold is bad…

nobody wrote me here, what is his raise folding or raise calling range and what could be optimal shoving range… where are regulars here?

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Metasploit
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December 15, 2010 - 7:50 am
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Hi Sedrick

The players who replied in this forum (not including myself) are more then capable of disecting the situation to come up with a reasonable conclusion IMO. Last time I checked Killingbird (owner), FkCoolers (mod), swet1, bjiz all have hundreds of posts logged so I consider them regulars. Also if you are concerned about us potentially being results oriented then don't post the results of the hand (most dont to get the most accurate feedback). There is an option in the hand history converter to not show the result. 🙂

You can always Private Message the PRO's to get their advice incase they missed this thread.

good luck sir 🙂

lespaulgman
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December 15, 2010 - 1:21 pm
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Looking at your hand, stack size and overall situation there is no way I get involved here. I am a pretty wide shover, but with someone I know I have some history with who is willing to call me off light (since he thinks I shove light) I fold this and wait to trap with a better hand and get paid that way. 25bb's is a fine stack and no reason to get crazy with it. As far as your last comment, unexploitable shoves are a much bigger part of Single Table SnG strategy where you have to take advantage of the maximum number of opportunities due to a number of factors surrounding those games. As far as MTTs are concerned you have to think a lot broader about what is going on, your position, overall edge and future possibilities as the chances you are going to be sitting with someone for a while are substantially greater. I think you can pass up on +EV shoves in several spots to put yourself in much better +EV situations overall. I would take a step back and think a little more broadly about tourney strategy and not get lost in every single conflict otherwise you are going to have -EV tournements, even though you are taking advantage of every +EV spot.

 

Last comment on your follow up I think the reason you didn't see this information is that no one is really looking to play the hand at all so the rest of that information isn't relevant to the responses. If I can suggest take the opportunity to see if you can understand why you are getting a very different perspective on playing the hand, as there may be something interesting in there to learn or apply. When you post hands in the forums you rarely will get the answer you want, but you always get the answers you need (you just sometimes have to dig to find out why). GL at the Tables!

 

— LPG

HITTHEPANDA
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December 15, 2010 - 8:49 pm
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6 handed instead of 9 is less antes in the pot, shove might be +ev but it hink its more +ev to raise/fold.  even then im not sure if its +ev to shove this nowadays because as we see he called with a3o and people love to call light nowadays so we should be shoving a bit tighter, plenty of room to raise/fold here and we shouldnt be raising a ton of sbs with this stack to begin with so it should be fine

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praetor
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December 15, 2010 - 10:09 pm
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    I don't like the shove here, your BBs are not low enough yet to shove this type of hand.  This guy was probably looking to get it in with any ace against your wide range and aggression. I usually have the same response when I am up agianst aggro guys, I will call or shove over them when I have Ax when their stats are high. I would say most the time I win the race. He could have called out of frustration or just playing the ace.

"Your either in Sheen's Korner or your with the trolls."

head218
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December 16, 2010 - 4:52 pm
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I wasnt sure why people havent said raise/fold in this spot until htp said it.

 

Its an awkward stack for BB to get involved with especially with aggro stacks, so flatting here would be a big suprise to me.

mmfitter
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December 16, 2010 - 6:42 pm
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Sedrick said:

sorry for this comment, but fold here is the worst option… everybody here post result oriented option, if shove here is +ev or unexploitable push in Nash, then fold is bad…

 


Watch the new math theory video,  punch in the numbers from this hand, and also, tweek the numbers around a bit, and see what you come up with.

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