View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Jonathan little's strategy do you disagree?
folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
Members
Forum Posts: 1133
Member Since:
September 14, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
August 22, 2015 - 7:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

Hey

 

I've been reading Jonathan little's secrets of proffesional tournaments poker. 

 

In his book he says:

 

“suppose someone raises UTG and you have 7:spade 6:spade on the button if you all have over 80bb or so , you should call this raise every time.”

 

what he's trying to say is that because its likely that UTG raising range consist of big pairs and big cards if you connect well with the flop you're likely to win a big pot , you have huge implied odds.

 

whilst thats true , i just dont think we're going to outflop our opponent that often enough to make a call pre profitable with those type of hands. I mean the likely hood of hero hitting a straight or flush is not very likely plus we can always be dominated by better flushes , unless of course we call with a hand like AXs , as they make the nut flush. Even then with those type of hands we have to be careful as we can be dominated by a bettter kicker. 

 

I just want to find out if my thoughts are correct here. I reckon we can play these type of hands (we can call) against players that we have read on that are playing a tight range. So basically if we can cap their range to only big hands we can put a lot of pressure on them post flop. So here's a example blinds $50/$100 , 100bb effective, UTG raises $200  , we flat with Td9d BTN.  Flop 6h 9c 2h (pot $550) v  bets 1/2 pot , well here we can either float or raise. Lets say we call pot now is $1100 , turn is 3heart v bets $850 pot is $1950 , now there range seems pretty strong like overpairs with a heart they also may bet with  AheartKdiamond , hero could now raise  and turn our hand into a bluff and represent a flush,  hero could easily have flushes in our range.  If v calls hero's raise on the turn we can shove river on pretty much any non heart river. If v checks a rivered heart we can still shove to get them to fold weaker flushes like TT/JJ and maybe QQ.

 

we could also play our draws aggressively and represent a lot of hands by raising flops c/r turns or leading out turns  ect as these sorta flops dont really connect with a UTG raising range .we can cap their range and get them to fold these 1 pair hands , so i reckon playing a wider range from the button vs a tighter range can be profitable , espically if u have good skills post flop and if your opponent is not willing to stack of with 80bb+ with a pair. Thing is though our implied odds are not always going to be great because good players dont really tend to stack of with a pair when deep stacked anyway.

 

i'm just really unsure on whether i should be flatting pre often with these marginal hands against a ep or or mp raise readless? also what would u do in a spot where like there's a ep raise and 4-5 callers and ur on the button with a hand like 56s? are we calling there when we are deep? or do u prefer 3-betting there or just folding? 

 

I really do prefer 3-betting those type of hands rather then flatting because at least then we have some fold equity against a loose opener , agianst a tight opponent i reckon flatting or maybe even folding is OK , depending on your post flop skills and your opponents post flop tendencies like if they play straightforward.

 

cheers! 

joelshitshow
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 582
Member Since:
February 20, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
August 23, 2015 - 11:50 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I think I heard this on a Thinking Poker podcast: 3-bet the one-gappers and flat the suited connectors, because the one-gappers connect less with flops, so the fold equity can make up for that.

Building a pot to take down later can make sense with the right opponents. For me it has to do with my image during the session. If I've been very active then this won't work. But if I've been playing super-tight and it's the right kind of opponent, this is a great play. I like it better with a suited ace (esp. wheel ace) because now I may have more outs if an ace hits. (But do I need a bluff-catcher when I'm the one bluffing? I still don't understand what the value of that ace is in this case, unless it's because it is a blocker so my opponent is less likely to bluff-catch ME with an ace.)

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
August 23, 2015 - 2:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

“Implied odds” is about more than just stacking someone when you make a big hand. The fact that you can sometimes take pots away, as you describe, also increases your ability to realize more than your share of equity. At 80bb, I wouldn't call a large raise from a very tight player, because that isn't really a lot of room to take someone off a big hand nor a lot to win on the rare occasion that you make a big hand. But against a wider range or with more $ behind or facing a smaller raise, I like the call. Having the button matters a lot here too, it hurts you a lot if you call in MP and someone calls behind you.

pokerlogs
Playing Freerolls
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
July 29, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
August 23, 2015 - 5:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I wrote to him to his facebook account on that thing because I thought it is wrong as well.here is what he respon-

“You seem to be ignoring the concept of postflop playability. You don't actually need the nuts to apply pressure after the flop.”

even though i still think it is a situation that will cause you a lot of problems.

Kalculater
Nose Bleed Member
Members
Forum Posts: 428
Member Since:
January 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
August 23, 2015 - 6:42 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Having the button and position in these kinds of spots is huge. We can apply pressure, we have position and alot more information. Against straght-forward opponents that are going to cbet, check turn we can easily take away pots without having to apply too much pressure later in the hands. Add the value of our 'sneakier' made hands when villains make a hand and these can be quite profitable spots.

 

Wanted to point out that its not possible for us to c/r or lead out turns when we have position on the button as per your example folding_aces.

folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
Members
Forum Posts: 1133
Member Since:
September 14, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
August 23, 2015 - 9:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

 I meant hero can bet turn when checked too or raise turn. I've been doing that quite a lot lately, thanks for that! 🙂

 

Lol jonathan also said something like we can flat suited connectors from the button even when we are like 30bb effective also in regards to bluffing he would never run (very unlikely) a huge bluff in a tournament because its too much of a risk,  If we get called we are out of the tournement. He's a really good poker player though , so he must be doing something right?

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
44 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1