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JJ oop overpair
almofadinhas
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April 15, 2016 - 9:41 pm
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Full Tilt, 600/1,200 blinds, 150 ante No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): 48,854 (40.7 bb)
BB: 48,175 (40.1 bb)
UTG+2: 48,105 (40.1 bb)
MP1: 83,360 (69.5 bb)
MP2: 31,766 (26.5 bb)
MP3: 41,305 (34.4 bb)
CO: 76,358 (63.6 bb)
BTN: 45,806 (38.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Jdiamond Jclub
UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to 2,400, 2 folds, CO calls 2,400, BTN folds, Hero calls 1,800, BB folds

Flop: (9,600) Tclub 7heart 6club (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets 7,605, Hero calls 7,605, MP1 folds

Turn: (24,810) 5heart (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (24,810) Theart (2 players)
Hero bets 8,850

Not sure how to play this hand, I think is another screwup by me embarassed

The two V was not too bad, for what I have seen, but not sure if they were too good…

I didn´t squezze it pre flop, I though I was too deep to 3bet sqz this, and will be weird if there was a 4bet pre flop… oop too…

Flop I kinda like the, low to my hand, some draws there, I check, original raiser check, not sure what that means, maybe he is giving up or just setting a trap, CO raises huge, about 80% and I was like “WTF?” lol, do I decided to call one, and also see what MP1 does.

5 put more draws there, 45 hit a pair, another flush draw… just check and folding if V booms it again, or should I check/call? check shove? When V checks turn I feel better about my hand now, then river hits lol, I didn´t like it much…

I bet OTR about 1/3, was like a blockbet to me, folding for a reraise, didn´t want to V boom it again. Maybe betting small I can get value from 7x and 6x? 45 perhaps? Really not sure what to do here… thoughts?

joelshitshow
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April 16, 2016 - 3:59 pm
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Still learning with these types of hands. Here’s what I would do for now.

Based on your reads, pre I would squeeze to 9300 (makes it 6900 to call) and fold to a 4-bet.

As played, I guess I wouldn’t lead because the board is wet. That’s a huge flop bet. I do have backdoor straight and club possibilities, but I don’t know if it’s enough to turn this into a call. I don’t check-raise because my stack is awkward. (I could have thought about check-raising a smaller flop bet. I would have been unprepared for an 80% pot flop bet.)

I put V on stuff like KQ, 99, and 88. I feel like stronger stuff he would have 3-bet pre. Weaker stuff he would have folded to a preflop raise. He could have T9 and 98 suited as well, but I don’t know if he would bet those bigger on the flop. And he’s last to act on the flop and may have bet big to take it down. (I just said this in another thread. I always worry that I’m overemphasizing a strategy when I talk about it so much, but it could just be variance :))

chaos
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April 17, 2016 - 8:03 am
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I think you shold 3bet pre. You should be way ahead of CO calling range here but still JJ doesn’t play too well against the combined range of two villains.

If MP1 goes all in I’d probably fold. If he calls then reevaluate on the flop.

As played I like the blocker bet to “depolarize” his range. If he bets big in the river that could be AT or a missed flush draw so by betting small we discourage him from bluffing off with a miss draw I think… mostly because if HE doesn’t have the T it is quite likely we have it given the way we’ve played the hand. On the other hand if he does have the T he’ll either call or shove (and then we fold) but it is unlikely he’s going to bluff his missed draws. I don’t think you’re getting any worse hand to call but you avoid having to make a big decision on the river as to whether he is bluffing or not faced with a big bet.

BalletBoi
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April 18, 2016 - 12:08 am
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I think a 3bet squeeze here would be acceptable. Like the other members have said, JJ plays better heads up instead of versus multiple opponents. (As an example, just imagine you’re up against both KQo and A2s). You could also take down the pot right there, which would be awesome.

If it’s just one raise pre, I think you could call with 40bb and see what the flop brings and take it from there.

As played, I think I’d check-raise the flop. The turn could bring SO MANY ugly cards for you that just halt you in your tracks and leave you playing a guessing game as to whether you’re ahead or behind (versus two potential opponents still). A check-raise would likely narrow the field (to heads-up or win you the pot right there) while getting value from lots of draws and worse made hands. His 80% pot bet is actually somewhat optimal for you, I think, (if you choose to check-raise), because it’d likely put him into a shove-or-fold spot, based upon your required check-raise sizing. If he’d call your CR, it’d commit him to stacks anyway, and against the flat caller’s preflop range, I think you’re WAY ahead here! Lots of draws out there, so go ahead, get value, and get some fold equity too 🙂 If it’s a cooler, it’s a cooler. But out of position, you can’t always afford to play the guessing game when you have a really good hand against his range.

Foucault

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April 18, 2016 - 11:33 am
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I agree that squeezing pre is somewhat more appealing than calling, but I doubt it’s a huge a difference. Then again, if you’re uncomfortable playing post-flop, I guess that’s a reason to prefer the squeeze (and to work on your post-flop game!). 

I’m not so sure about check-raising the flop though. “you have a really good hand against his range.”

Do you? Why don’t you give MP1 a betting range (I’ll grant that you’re almost always ahead of the caller) and see what Hero’s equity looks like. Keep in mind the pre-flop action as well.

BalletBoi
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April 18, 2016 - 4:31 pm
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If it’s a wet board like that, the original raiser didn’t cbet and the flat caller IP makes the flop bet, there’s a ton of hands that hit his IP range – smaller flush draws, straight draws, pair + straight draws, and other combo draws, but most of them we’re flipping with or marginally ahead (ie. AT for made hands or even stuff like 78s — pair + gut shot — where we’d be about 2 to1).

By me saying, “you have a really good hand against his range,” I think a better way I could say it is, “I don’t think we’re often behind in this spot.” The hands you’re behind are a made straight (89), sets, or 76 for two-pair. Why not gain fold equity versus his weaker draws (like middle pair plus gut shot draw) that he can fold out (and, if you just call here, could leave you in weird spots out of position for possible turns and rivers), and take what’s likely the flip if he does want to get it in? 

Think of all the nasty turn cards that could come on the turn for us – overcards (12 outs), flushes coming in (5 more outs, after the overcards) 8 or 9 for straights (6 more outs), that’s 23 outs — about half the remaining deck — that you’d probably just have to check-fold to on the turn OOP if villain’s likely to barrel those off. If not on the turn, they could easily come on the river if he just checks behind then on the turn. 

I don’t know – I just feel by simply calling, you’re going to have to concede to villain’s turn / river in position play a lot of the time.

By raising, we also don’t give 4 to 1 odds to the original raiser to make a flop overcall. If he has like AcKx or AcQx, he could peel one some of the time if we just called, right? I feel like him checking the flop puts a lot of overcards or underpairs in his range.

I can probably still work on developing my post-flop play a bit more myself, though, all of that said. Would you recommend just calling and “re-evaluating” on the turn? Maybe donk lead a blank or are we always checking?

almofadinhas
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April 18, 2016 - 7:02 pm
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Foucault said
I agree that squeezing pre is somewhat more appealing than calling, but I doubt it’s a huge a difference. Then again, if you’re uncomfortable playing post-flop, I guess that’s a reason to prefer the squeeze (and to work on your post-flop game!). 

Squezze call, or squeeze fold? I feel like squeeze fold turns my hand in a bluff here, I feel bad about it lol…

BalletBoi said

By me saying, “you have a really good hand against his range,” I think a better way I could say it is, “I don’t think we’re often behind in this spot.” The hands you’re behind are a made straight (89), sets, or 76 for two-pair. Why not gain fold equity versus his weaker draws (like middle pair plus gut shot draw) that he can fold out (and, if you just call here, could leave you in weird spots out of position for possible turns and rivers), and take what’s likely the flip if he does want to get it in? 

I think a check-raise OTF only gets me to run versus the best of V´s range, maybe some 40%/60% dog… We only can make V fold his range that we are ahead, and I am not sure I want that… I have to see more about scary cards on this board tow… maybe 8 or 9 or a club.

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