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May 30, 2012
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At Parx BigStax VI tourney series. pretty nice field, pros and rec players everywhere.
My table was soft to begin, but as the day has gone on it's gotten tough everywhere.
Players. HERO, 40 yrs. serious rec player (some think I'm a pro at times), been playing a tight aggro style all day. Winning nice pots with big hands, not too many showdowns. I'm CL at the tbl with 170K after dinner.
Villians: Player UTG has been at tbl w/ me all day, he's tight solid. He's down to 10bb.
Player in MP, appears wacky aggro w/ care at times for pot size or anything. He's been 3.5'x and making big flop bets. Doesn't want to see many turns or rivs. He's a NYer w/ a lot of NYer friends that have come over to tlb. Surprisingly I have NEVER played with either in any tourney that I can remember. he's at 140k or so.
1/2k/300
Player UTG jams 23k
MP calls, by putting out 6 5k chips and not asking for a count. These two guys know each other and are friendly. appear close friends.
I'm in BB w/ JJ.
what's your play? Do you flat? Do you reraise? Do you jam?
*THis is a rebuy unlimited LIVE tourney, but it's late Sat night and mothers day is next day. I'm not rebuying.
January 15, 2013
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As a friend of the guy, do you think he KNOWS the guy is shoving QQ+ and thus is only flatting with a monster? OR, do you believe that, BECAUSE they are friends, he is making a seeming stong flat with a weaker holding just to protect his friend's hand?
If former, think I actually fold here. If the latter, three bet but don't shove; stack sizes way too big to jam 85bb in to his 70, imo. Don't believe flatting is a great idea to a guy who might lead pot on a rainbow low flop and you'll have no idea where you are.
November 4, 2013
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Hmm, this is a fun one.
As much as I like the 3bet option, there isn't really any logical sizing that allows us to 3b/fold. So I think if we are going to 3bet, we are commiting to call off our stack, which is really not something that's going to be optimal with how deep we are.
Flatting is going to put us in a lot of potentially tough spots post flop, and OOP. This option also puts a bit under 80K in the middle with 145 left in our stack, so it's a two street game.
Folding is just weak, and I personally hate that option. So I'm never folding.
It's going to come down to a lot of feel for me. How much I feel like spazzy is going to want to get involved in a war with me as CL. How much I feel I can outplay him postflop, even OOP.
Just how big are his flop bets? If the flop comes down 9 high rainbow, are we willing to check shove over a 55k bet?
He doesn't have to have a monster here. He could very well be doing this with AJ, KQ type of hands. As well as underpairs to our JJ.
January 16, 2014
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Folding isn’t terrible… It’s jacks.. Overs come good chance ur behind that are def in their range. And of course you only really have two outs. There’s better spots to get involved with that much of your stack. I don’t like flatting because your just in a terrible spot with a lot flops and are gonna put u in a tight situation with a huge pot. Iso isn’t bad either probably ahead of their range. I may lean towards a crying fold. Maybe I’m too nitty, for the record don’t hate a jam or a 3 bet that acts like a jam.
April 8, 2013
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I dont think a flat is nearly as bad as some think. Even if his sizing is big he will be doing it into a dry sidepot so that may change his flop play. Often I see people flat in these spots with marginal hands like AJ or medium pairs and will click it with bigger hands like AA,KK,QQ,AK. Personally, Im making it 54k and going with it if he jams.
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August 25, 2012
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The caller seems to be pretty splashy and bad so I doubt I'm ever thinking about any option that involves folding here. I think the only question is whether there's any value in making it around 50k and calling off a shove, or whether we just shove right now. Considering the player type that we're up against and his tendency not to want to see flops, I certainly think it's possible that he rejams a hand like 99-TT or AQ/AK if we make it 50k, since it'll look somewhat like we just want to get heads-up against the short stack.
It's worth noting that we obviously couldn't ever really make it 50k here and then fold to a reshove, so our range is extremely strong. But we're banking on the villain assuming otherwise. If we think he's good enough to realise that we can't fold once we make it 50k, I think shoving becomes the better play.
May 30, 2012
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I'm going to wait another day or so and see if any of the other fine people that post things want to answer & post results.
For the record. I later learned the guy has 3 life time cashes. A WIN for 24k & 2nd for 32k up in Connecticut. came off more cash player……….. If that matters.
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September 28, 2012
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theginger45 said:
The caller seems to be pretty splashy and bad so I doubt I'm ever thinking about any option that involves folding here. I think the only question is whether there's any value in making it around 50k and calling off a shove, or whether we just shove right now. Considering the player type that we're up against and his tendency not to want to see flops, I certainly think it's possible that he rejams a hand like 99-TT or AQ/AK if we make it 50k, since it'll look somewhat like we just want to get heads-up against the short stack.
It's worth noting that we obviously couldn't ever really make it 50k here and then fold to a reshove, so our range is extremely strong. But we're banking on the villain assuming otherwise. If we think he's good enough to realise that we can't fold once we make it 50k, I think shoving becomes the better play.
Like this analysis of it.
I go with a shove here, hoping he feels connected with 99/TT.
Also isnt 6 5k chips an overchip which means he has to raise? Its been too much grad school for me recently so I may not be thinking correctly.
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November 4, 2013
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The extra chip would largely depend on the casino you are in. Most of them would rule that it needs to be equal to half of the original bet to be considered a raise. Very few these days will rule that a single extra chip is a raise in this specific case.
April 8, 2013
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Yea at Parx it must be 1.5x the originial bet to be a raise
May 30, 2012
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Since this guy came to the tbl he's been playing weird. I'm sure he was in for multiple bullets, an hour or so before he came to the tbl with a NEW fresh rebuy stack.
The tbl was decent and aggro with Ray Ross (area reg), Greg Himmlebrand (NY reg) and a few other decent guys. So, this villian didn't want to play much post flop.
*As far as the chips, he put them out in two stacks of 3. He may have said call, but he was not raising. I felt he was strong, but not AA or KK strong. I didn't want to play oop w/ JJ and felt if I 3bet, I would have to call and shove. So, I shoved because if a A or K fell on the flop, I would not be sure what to do esp if he bets. I felt that he would fold to a shove and felt that it was my only move. I never thought about folding pre.
and…………………………………………….
He folded and was unhappy doing so. Open mucks TT. I shake my head and the dealer puts out the flop 4, 3, and….. J (F ME), the turn a T (double F me) and K on river. The villian says right away, “Yo, you would have gotten my whole stack. wow.” AND……… I lost to the all-in who had AQ.
I'm still ok with my play. That hand was the talk of the table for a while. Villian was shocked I jammed and didn't flat. The better pros at the tbl thought as played it was ok. The villian went on to finish like 12th…… I cashed in 60th taking a huge bad beat by Matt Glantz when his 66 beats my QQ aipf prior to the money. Thanks for the comments guys
June 24, 2012
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P-aire 146 said:
So, I shoved because if a A or K fell on the flop, I would not be sure what to do esp if he bets.
Why would you think that he would bluff into a dead pot if an A or K fell esp into the chip leader? Seems like you could flat call with your JJs and expect him to play pretty straight forward post-flop, after all your flat looks super-strong so I don't think you have to be worried about getting bluffed off it.
Now after you say you didn't think he had AA or KK(which might have bein useful at the start of the post) so that changes things and shove is ok considering its only QQs that has us beat.
May 30, 2012
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Well, It was a LIVE feeling. Like I said earlier in the post. He was playing weird and nothing he was doing was standard or for value at times. He to me was playing scared. So, I thought my best options was to go HUs vs the all-in. Isn't that something you would normally want to do OOP? Felt like I had the best hand
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