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JJ bb fold or shove
badabing78
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May 29, 2011 - 8:49 pm
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what would you do? k.o.t.t. plays 25/14

 

Ongame Network ChampionChip $200,000 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t125/t250 Blinds + t25 – 10 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

dirkske200 (UTG+2): BB = 43.5, t10870
Fentoolzer35 (MP1): BB = 27.2, t6789
PANAGTHOMAS (MP2): BB = 53.4, t13360
Fedkor_x (MP3): BB = 7.7, t1925
walton7 (CO): BB = 65.9, t16483
pro_reiz (BTN): BB = 18.4, t4610
K.O.T.T. (SB): BB = 57.9, t14476
Hero (BB): BB = 77.8, t19444
scarecr00w (UTG): BB = 12.4, t3090
iloveaas85 (UTG+1): BB = 26.4, t6612

Pre Flop: (t625) Hero is BB with J of diamonds J of hearts
7 folds, pro_reiz raises to t4585 all in, K.O.T.T. calls t4460, hero???

southpaw_r32
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May 30, 2011 - 1:23 am
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I probably fold here….. BTN's range is any 2 cards………

 

At least you get see what the BB flats here with……

 

You still have 77xBB so plenty of time.

cousteer
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May 30, 2011 - 2:38 am
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I agree southpaw,  I reckon I'd fold too mainly due to the perceived strength of the SB flat call.  You're likely to run into any broadway combination that could potentially do some damage. Given your stack size, better err of the safe side and I'd wait for a better spot.

JJ can be a fickle hand at times…

chip chimp71
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May 30, 2011 - 3:40 am
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I agree with posts above. Although JJ looks pretty in your hand, before you put another chip in the pot you have to ask yourself “what would I shove with if I was the one that open shoved?” then “what could possibly call it?” Shoving over top of the BU is not going to get there most of the time as he is now essentially pot committed himself. This is one of the situations where you could be way ahead or way behind, but with the amount of chips you have it isn't worth the gamble just yet.

bjizzle44
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May 30, 2011 - 10:21 am
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wow, im the only one think this is an insta iso shove. how nitty are we becoming as players…..lol but seriously i do think this is an insta iso shove here.  as mentioned, btn shove range is pretty wide and for sb to just call makes his hand not as strong as well unless he's sitting with exactly aces or kings and looking to trap with his monsters but if so its a cooler in this spot. lot of dead money in pot iso shove is optimal in this spot. if positions were different…  shover was utg, caller was mp2 then i could look toward the fold bttn. but positions as they are i think this is ezy iso shove.

 

bjizz

bjizzle44
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May 30, 2011 - 10:26 am
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bjizzle44 said:

wow, im the only one think this is an insta iso shove. how nitty are we becoming as players…..lol but seriously i do think this is an insta iso shove here.  as mentioned, btn shove range is pretty wide and for sb to just call makes his hand not as strong as well unless he's sitting with exactly aces or kings and looking to trap with his monsters but if so its a cooler in this spot. lot of dead money in pot iso shove is optimal in this spot. if positions were different…  shover was utg, caller was mp2 then i could look toward the fold bttn. but positions as they are i think this is ezy iso shove.

 

bjizz

btw, if im way off here( which i am a lot of the times….lol) wt are our flatting ranges and iso shoveing ranges from in this spot.

bjizz

hawkeyeK9
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May 30, 2011 - 11:26 am
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One thing to keep in mind here. The SB flat is not as strong when there is only one person to act behind him. He might be calling the all in with a standard calling range here but chooses not to iso because there is only the BB behind him whom is likely to fold. If it was an early position all in and a MP flat with a bunch of people to act behind then I think that is mega strong.

Here, because I think he is just not thinking the BB will wake up with a hand and we are way ahead of a standard 18bb calling range here, I am jamming it all in with a fist pump!

G0liath
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May 30, 2011 - 11:32 am
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Because of the positions I don’t think SB has to have a monster here. TT, AT both massively in his range. BTN range is very wide most Kx, lots of suited Qx.

I iso jam this

hapetimes
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May 30, 2011 - 11:32 am
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initially i thought i'm getting it in and folding was way too nitty

 

then i convinced myself that flatting and raising were both less optimal

 

but without over analyzing – we have an 18bb shove which we'd call gladly, and the SB flat either means he's got the bottom 3/4 of the calling range against an 18bb btn shove OR he's got exactly AA as hawkeye stated

i really think if he has JJ,QQ,KK or AK he iso's all the time

realistically the ONLY hands SB flats AND calls our 4bet shove are AA and possibly KK

 

so i'm getting it in also

feralcrab
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May 30, 2011 - 11:56 pm
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yep have to agree with hapetimes here. SB would reshove any hand that beats us. i think hes prob calling with TT or less.

badabing78
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May 31, 2011 - 8:31 pm
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great analysis, thx guys

unfortunately i folded 🙁  but when i reviewed that hand it seemed soo clear that he (sb) was not strong  and i instantly thought this should have been a shove – but i knew already which hand he had so it was good to hear from most of you the same analysis!!!  i guess a main reason was also, it was a pretty high buy in for me (200$) and so i played too much “pussypoker” 😉

 

btw kott had 88

and the btn had A3s

 

cousteer
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May 31, 2011 - 11:35 pm
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Great thread, very helpful,

It highlighted the fact that my current level of hand analysis is somewhat superficial and I need to venture a bit deeper. 

thx

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